Legacy Lessons: The Enduring Wisdom of Our Grandparents for Success Today

Harley Finkelstein (00:00):
So David, you and I have been accused of being old souls. I've heard this 20 times over. I know you have also.

David Segal (00:06):
Who says that? I want names.

Harley Finkelstein (00:09):
People accuse old souls. And I don't really know exactly what that means, but my interpretation of it is that you and I derive a lot of great value from hearing the anecdotes, the stories of people older than us.

David Segal (00:20):
Much older.

Harley Finkelstein (00:20):
That have been there, much more experienced than us.

David Segal (00:21):
Hence, Big Shot, right?

Harley Finkelstein (00:22):
And that's exactly right. And this entire show is meant to be a celebration and an archival of those that came before us, the people whose shoulders [00:00:30] we are standing on.

David Segal (00:31):
Absolutely.

Harley Finkelstein (00:31):
But one thing that is also very important to us as family. And your family is a storied entrepreneurial family. My grandfather sold eggs in a farmer's market. My other grandfather was a peddler. But I, as you know, have this incredible relationship with my grandparents and my parents. And part of it is that, I think the only way for you to do really great for the next generation is to know and understand what happened in the generation that come before you.

(00:57):
You and I have this great reverence for those [00:01:00] that came before us. We love their stories, their anecdotes. You want to hear their little jokes and their story about this one time where I was walking down the Main in Montreal and then I came over in the boat, landed in Halifax.

David Segal (01:13):
I cut the fabric in half.

Harley Finkelstein (01:15):
I cut the fabric in half.

David Segal (01:15):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (01:16):
And I think one of the things that we love doing, and maybe that's part of us being old souls, is that we have this great love, admiration, and deep respect for our parents and grandparents and the platforms and the lives they've given us so that we can go and [00:01:30] build our own companies.

David Segal (01:31):
Absolutely. I mean, I think of it like an incredible oak tree. You need to know about the roots. And the roots go very, very deep. And this is something we heard about from every one of our guests on how important their parents and grandparents and the lessons they learned from them were in their success.

Harley Finkelstein (01:46):
That's right.

David Segal (01:47):
Whether it was Charles Bronfman and the lessons he learned from his dad, I mean, there's this great story. I still remember it, out of his book, and I believe we touch on it in one of the interviews where his dad writes him a letter on his bar mitzvah and he's like, "Well is it to [00:02:00] walk amongst kings but never lose the common touch."

Harley Finkelstein (02:02):
Yeah. This amazing lesson about being ambitious, but remember...

David Segal (02:05):
Who you are.

Harley Finkelstein (02:06):
Who you are and keep your modesty, be humble.

David Segal (02:10):
Right. And those roots become very, very important. Or whether it's Issy Sharp who talks about how his mother really had such chutzpah and had no doubt, but his father had this incredible charisma and he inherited both of them and learned from both of them. And you hear from each one of these guests, or Eddie Sonshine, his dad, his work [00:02:30] ethic, he comes over with nothing. I mean, nothing.

Harley Finkelstein (02:32):
Do you remember Eddie Sonshine's father was on his honeymoon, I believe?

David Segal (02:35):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (02:36):
Right? Do you remember how long?

David Segal (02:37):
No, that's Issy Sharp.

Harley Finkelstein (02:38):
I'm sorry, Issy.

David Segal (02:38):
It might as well have been Eddie Sonshine's, too.

Harley Finkelstein (02:40):
So, Issy Sharpe's mother and father had their honeymoon.

David Segal (02:44):
Yes.

Harley Finkelstein (02:44):
And the honeymoon was from 8:00 AM till 9:00 AM on a Tuesday. He said he slept in.

David Segal (02:50):
He slept in.

Harley Finkelstein (02:51):
That was his honeymoon. But that type of work ethic I think trickles down. And I think this idea of learning from the generation coming before us is such an interesting thing. And I [00:03:00] loved hearing these stories.

(03:01):
I remember Eddie Sonshine told this story where he's explaining to his father the concept of a real estate investment trust. And he says, "Dad, we buy buildings, raise money."

(03:09):
His dad says, "Eddie, that sounds like a good business."

(03:13):
And Eddie, even though his father wasn't going to help him, he wanted his father to understand. He wanted to bring his father along on the journey of him building RioCan.

David Segal (03:23):
And that's what we're going to learn about here in this Big Shot short. We're going to learn about legacy. We're going to learn about how the roots of each one of these [00:03:30] big shots, the lessons that they learned from their parents and from their grandparents, how important they were for them in helping them achieve their success.

Harley Finkelstein (03:37):
Yeah. I want you all to think about this. Behind every one of these big shots are these generations of mini-big shots who paved the way so they can build these incredible companies. And that's the case for you and me. The reason we can operate the way we do and build the things we've built is because of our parents and grandparents and the sacrifices they made. And I believe this is going to resonate with every single one of you.

David Segal (04:00):
[00:04:00] We're going to hear from Eddie Sonshine, the founder of RioCan, one of Canada's largest development companies on how his father taught him that when you pair education with hard work, you get a powerful combination.

Harley Finkelstein (04:24):
You had a paper route when you were 10 years old?

Ed Sonshine (04:26):
Yes.

Harley Finkelstein (04:26):
By the time you were 12, I think your father told you to go get a summer job.

Ed Sonshine (04:30):
[00:04:30] Yes.

Harley Finkelstein (04:30):
What was that first summer job for you?

Ed Sonshine (04:32):
Working for him. I couldn't get any other one.

(04:34):
Basically, I was an assistant laborer. He was a small home builder. He built 10, 20 houses a year, actually made a good living doing it. And so, I used to be the guy that walked around and picked up the garbage, the little pieces of wood that were extra pieces of wood that the carpenter would just leave on the ground and kept the site clean.

(04:59):
And [00:05:00] it was very different times. Building permits, you had a case of Crown Royal in your trunk. The building inspector showed up, my father gave them a bottle. But we're talking like the late '50s, early '60s. It was good times. And I did that when I was 12. And I think by the time I was 14, I started getting real jobs.

Harley Finkelstein (05:21):
Lumberyard?

Ed Sonshine (05:22):
Well, my father got them for me. I mean, my grandkids wanted a summer job, they go work somewhere good. [00:05:30] Me, I worked in a lumberyard. I worked in a stone yard one summer.

Harley Finkelstein (05:33):
There is one sort of common theme here, even from an early age, which I think comes from your father potentially, which is hard work, right?

Ed Sonshine (05:40):
Yeah, basically, his thing to me was, "Look, Eddie, you're pretty smart." Although he once said to me... He said it in Yiddish, but I'll translate it into English. When I was 12 or 13 years old, he said, "Eddie, if talking is a profession, [00:06:00] you're going to do very well."

Harley Finkelstein (06:01):
I think it is a profession. Isn't that being a lawyer?

David Segal (06:03):
So he became a lawyer, yeah.

Ed Sonshine (06:04):
Little did he know it actually is a profession. But anyway, he told me two things that, number one, I should get as educated as I can possibly get. He said, "Because you know what? Look, I've lived through it, Eddie. The government, people, they can take away everything you got. But they can't take away what's in your head unless they kill you." He said they can do that too, but that's the only way they can take away in your head. And [00:06:30] if you've got to run, if you've got to go, whatever's in your head comes with you. So, get as educated as you can. I'll do whatever I have to do to pay for it. And he did.

(06:39):
And the other thing is being smart, being educated, that's great. But if you don't work hard, it's not great. He said, "I know a lot of smart, educated people both in Poland and here. They never succeed because there's no substitute for hard work, putting in the time, making the effort. There's just no substitute [00:07:00] for it."

(07:00):
And so, my brother and I were taught that. And not just taught that. We saw it. I mean, during what in those days was called construction season, today you build all year round, it was basically from now through to around the end of October. And my dad would leave literally before there was light so he could be on the job by the time it was light. And he'd come home when it got dark. [00:07:30] In the summer, that was like 9:30, 10:00. And then he'd eat dinner, whenever it was. So, I never had dinner with him during the construction season. And in the off-season, he was busy getting his next deals ready for the next year. So, he just worked all the time.

Harley Finkelstein (07:48):
You're going to hear from Jonathan Wener, the founder of Canderel. He's going to talk about how, when he was 12 years old, he pushed his father and asked for a raise at his work.

(07:59):
Talk to me a bit [00:08:00] about your upbringing. You were a kid, you said sort of upper middle class to lower middle class. How did that affect you? How did that instill a sense of security or lack of security in you?

Jonathan Wener (08:09):
My parents and my grandparents instilled an incredible work ethic in me. I used to play hooky from school so I could do swatches because I would glue the swatches and get $4 a thousand.

Harley Finkelstein (08:29):
Textile swatches?

Jonathan Wener (08:29):
Textile [00:08:30] swatches on paper.

Harley Finkelstein (08:32):
And who paid you?

Jonathan Wener (08:34):
The business did.

Harley Finkelstein (08:35):
Okay.

Jonathan Wener (08:36):
But cheap labor, right?

Harley Finkelstein (08:37):
Yeah, of course.

Jonathan Wener (08:38):
So, I got sick more often than not because I could make four bucks a thousand. I had a Gazette route at 11 years old.

Harley Finkelstein (08:46):
Even though you sold textiles, you had a paper route. Talk a bit about that work ethic. Where did you see that work ethic? Where did it come from?

Jonathan Wener (08:54):
I guess it was always a drive to succeed. I watched my dad always undersell himself. [00:09:00] He never got the salary increases that he was worth. He eventually sold the business and went over to Scott LaSalle, brought in an Army uniform contract, re-engineered the plant, got a six-month payback on it. I don't know. They gave him a $10,000 bonus. I said, "Dad, you got to be kidding me. You got to ask for it."

Harley Finkelstein (09:26):
How old were you when he told your dad that he needs to get a raise?

Jonathan Wener (09:27):
I don't know. 12, 13?

Harley Finkelstein (09:27):
You were 12 years [00:09:30] old telling your father you got to get a raise?

Jonathan Wener (09:31):
Yeah, he always seemed to me to underachieve what he was worth for what he did. He was very dedicated, very hardworking. He worked even for Alvin Siegel. It was, I think, his second to last job. But he was always the kind of guy that you want in terms of concern for your nickels and dimes. So he'd say, "I'm going to go deliver [00:10:00] this."

(10:00):
I said, "Dad, for what you're being paid, give it to a courier, $5. It's not your..."

(10:06):
"Oh, I don't want the company to spend it."

Harley Finkelstein (10:11):
Amazing loyalty.

Jonathan Wener (10:12):
But I learned my work ethic from them. My parents did not put me through school.

Harley Finkelstein (10:17):
Wow.

Jonathan Wener (10:18):
In fact, they made it worse. They charged me rent.

Harley Finkelstein (10:22):
They charged you rent?

Jonathan Wener (10:23):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (10:23):
To live at home?

Jonathan Wener (10:25):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (10:25):
And why is that?

Jonathan Wener (10:26):
I only found out later it was a forced saving. They gave it back to me when I got married.

David Segal (10:30):
[00:10:30] Wow.

Harley Finkelstein (10:30):
But you didn't know at the time?

Jonathan Wener (10:32):
No.

Harley Finkelstein (10:32):
And so they were trying to create independence, presumably?

Jonathan Wener (10:34):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (10:35):
Yeah.

David Segal (10:35):
They wanted to instill the values state in you.

Harley Finkelstein (10:40):
We're going to hear from Issy Sharp, the founder of the Four Seasons. He's going to talk about how his mother's chutzpah and his father's good nature made him the ultimate salesman.

Issy Sharp (10:53):
We're born with our own genes and our own skills that come from generations past. But I think [00:11:00] it's the nurturing, which we have, and the nature of what we're born with.

(11:09):
And we were fortunate that my parents brought us up like they were brought up, to be self-sufficient. They never asked us or told us what to do. If we went out, they didn't say, "Where are you going?" And when they came back, they didn't say, "Where were you?" It was always [00:11:30] the trust in my three sisters and I that we would get by. So, we were fortunate to have a supportive upbringing that allowed each of us to develop our skills, find our way. We were never told what we should become.

(11:51):
You grow up as a Jewish child, you're your parents' child. You follow what they expect you to do, which we [00:12:00] did. And I think your principles and values that you inherit aren't what parents tell you. It's how they are. It's like osmosis. You learn by example of how they are treating people and how they treat you. So, that experience of living up to your word, your bond is important. [00:12:30] You make a commitment, you live up to it.

David Segal (12:32):
Even if it costs you money.

Issy Sharp (12:34):
It cost them for years. They were paying off the debt that they had,

David Segal (12:38):
From that first project?

Issy Sharp (12:39):
From that first project.

David Segal (12:40):
Wow.

Issy Sharp (12:42):
And my mother, to her, that's what you have to do. You made a mistake?

David Segal (12:47):
It's the right thing.

Issy Sharp (12:48):
That's it. We'll do it. They both struggled to get to where they were. And you saw that. And I think you're born with a certain self-esteem [00:13:00] that they encourage. That's what I mentioned with the nurturing is, they didn't suppress you and your thoughts. So, it built in myself and my sisters, I think, confidence and belief in yourself, because my mother did. She didn't have the language, but she was certain [00:13:30] of her opinion. I mean, there's no doubt.

Harley Finkelstein (13:36):
Sounds familiar, Dave?

David Segal (13:38):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (13:38):
Rosie described as a woman of no self-doubt. She wasn't born here with all the policies and etiquette. And she could be quite rude. But she had no malice. It wasn't like she was intending to be rude. That was her. And she was going to speak her mind. [00:14:00] And if you didn't like what she said?

Harley Finkelstein (14:02):
It's your problem.

Issy Sharp (14:04):
But it wasn't with malice. So, you grow up with that principle of, you stand your ground. And my whole life, I've never been intimidated. I've never shied away. And I often wonder, how'd I do that, like today with a little more maturity? And I said, I have no idea why I had the courage [00:14:30] or chutzpah to go up to the most important corporation in the world, ITT, and I think I can make a deal with them? That's ridiculous. But in my mind, hey, it's a good idea. I think they might like to hear about it. So, my belief in my ideas never wavered. I just had a conviction and I couldn't understand [00:15:00] why other people didn't see it.

(15:03):
So, I think as you both have done, you believed in what you were doing. It gave you the perseverance to overcome the skeptics and the difficulties because you could see the end. It's got to work. I will find a way to make this work. I'm a good salesman. I know that. I make a good first impression and I never disappoint. So, [00:15:30] I live up to what I say. And I can be a charming partner so I've been able to make very good business relations that exists to this day. I could make a good business deal.

(15:47):
So it's just, I think, a personality trait combination of my mother and my father: my mother's chutzpah, which gives me the confidence [00:16:00] and belief, and my father's good nature, always nice to be around, always positive, always, never a negative word out of his mouth. So, I think that combination of a personality has allowed me to make good impressions. It's been a part of my DNA.

David Segal (16:25):
We're going to hear from Charles Bronfman who's famous not just for bringing the Expos to Montreal, [00:16:30] but also his family starting Seagrams, which is makers of Crown Royal, on how his father taught him, when you make a deal, always leave something on the table.

Charles Bronfman (16:40):
Well, the way our family worked... And by the way, it was only Shabbat evening, Friday night and Sundays. We sat at the big table in the big dining room as opposed to eating in the breakfast room where the kids ate. And my father's [00:17:00] side of the head of the table. And actually I sat on his right and my brother sat on his left. And normally, the girls would sit there, but for some reason, not for [inaudible 00:17:10]. And he would talk homespun advice and homespun little jibs and jabs.

(17:24):
I remember one of them: if you're going to do a deal, always leave something on the table [00:17:30] because if you don't and you squeeze too hard, you'll do the deal, but you'll never do another one with that person.

Harley Finkelstein (17:39):
Which is not conventional wisdom. Usually, conventional wisdom is you take as much as you can get.

Charles Bronfman (17:44):
Yeah, you go for it all.

(17:44):
And he liked to teach us the humanistic approach to things because don't forget. He may have been a great businessman and he may have been tougher in nails. But when it got to Jewish philanthropy and philanthropy general, [00:18:00] philanthropy general, he was always very conscious that he had been called a bootlegger. Whether he was or not, I don't know. I never wanted to know one way or the other. And I couldn't have cared less whether. But that stuck to him and the Jewish business stuck to him. So, when he went to general philanthropy, he was pretty shy. When he came to Jewish philanthropy, he was the lord master in Canada.

(18:29):
So, [00:18:30] he was of several compartments. With me, he was very sweet and very kind. And he used to come in when I was going to bed and he'd play what he called tollies. "This little piggy went to market." And so, I never ever felt his wrath, but I was always scared that I might. He knew everything.

Harley Finkelstein (18:53):
He knew everything.

Charles Bronfman (18:54):
I remember one time there was a very nice guy. His name was Hank Collingwood.

Harley Finkelstein (18:59):
Hank Collingwood? [00:19:00] Okay.

Charles Bronfman (19:00):
Hank Collingwood.

Harley Finkelstein (19:01):
It's a good name.

David Segal (19:02):
It's strong.

Charles Bronfman (19:03):
He came from Newfoundland. He was our agent for Seagram in Newfoundland. Now, Newfoundland would've been one 10th of 1% of Seagram's business.

Harley Finkelstein (19:15):
Sure. Most it was in the US by this point?

Charles Bronfman (19:17):
Yeah. And Canada was around 9%.

Harley Finkelstein (19:20):
And this is a small province in Canada.

Charles Bronfman (19:25):
This is a small province in Canada. And the bulk of the alcohol sold, there [00:19:30] was something called Screech. Screech was rum-based and I don't know what every else was in it. And Collingwood comes in. He's our agent. And dad has nothing in front of him. And he said to Collingwood, "How's X, Y, Z brand doing?"

(19:48):
"Well, Mr. Sammy..." He starts looking and dad knew the numbers. He knew the numbers of every single brand, even if it sold [00:20:00] a tiny little amount. He knew it all. He knew his business backwards, forwards.

(20:04):
I used to ask him, "Dad, you spend two days a week in Montreal or one day a week in Montreal. You spend the rest of the week in New York. How the hell do you figure out Canada sales and US sales?"

(20:18):
He said, "Son, is very simple. I add a zero or I subtract a zero."

David Segal (20:24):
We're going to hear from Aldo Bensadoun, the founder of Aldo Shoes, on how integrity [00:20:30] and the desire to be fair was taught to him by his father and how that was one of the pillars in building his company.

Harley Finkelstein (20:37):
You care about business, but you also deeply care about your people and integrity. And I'm wondering, where did that come from? Was it your family that taught you that? Where did that sense of, "I can build good things and I can do it in a good way"?

Aldo Bensadoun (20:53):
I think it came from my mom and my dad. I mean, I remember in Morocco, [00:21:00] my mom was always very, very kind, and my dad also, with the people, with local people. And I guess it came from there and also from the desire to be fair, to be just.

(21:24):
I remember Trudeau saying, "Let's create a just society." [00:21:30] And all of us, we were socially-minded, but we were catalysts, but socially minded, if you want. And I think it's that fairness, that desire to do good, to be a good human being, if you want, basically to continue what we started as a company. Because today, [00:22:00] it's not me anymore. I mean, yes, I am the sole shareholder, but all the people that work in the company are the ones that make that company. And I think what's beautiful is to see, in Saudi Arabia, coming to visit us to buy shoes and they're sitting at the same table as Israel or as whatever. And so, they're talking.

(22:30):
[00:22:30] And so what I'm proud is the fact of seeing the way colleagues and employees in Saudi or in Dubai or wherever or in Philippine are treating their coworker inside their store in the same way as the way we treat them, with love, respect, and integrity. That way of treating human beings in different part of the world, to me, [00:23:00] makes the world a better place.

Harley Finkelstein (23:01):
And that's the same way your father treated his employees?

Aldo Bensadoun (23:03):
Exactly.

Harley Finkelstein (23:04):
In 1930s Morocco.

Aldo Bensadoun (23:05):
Exactly. Exactly.

Harley Finkelstein (23:06):
Yeah, it's an amazing thing.

Aldo Bensadoun (23:08):
And I'm a strong believer that you really grow. You stand on the shoulder of your past and of your family. I really do believe that.

Harley Finkelstein (23:22):
Sure. And that's why Big Shot exists. We've been standing on the shoulders of giants like yours for a long time as we've sort of built our families [00:23:30] and our businesses. And we are so grateful that you joined us for this archival.