An Unfiltered Conversation With The Founder of The Four Seasons: Issy Sharp (Part 2)

David Segal (00:00:00):
Well, now, I know what the YouTube headline's going to be, here.

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:10):
That might be the best part of the whole interview.

David Segal (00:00:22):
So this Big Shot thing is super fun. We're having a great time. People are loving it. It's a little expensive, just to say it. At the end of the day, we are...

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:32):
I'm glad you said it.

David Segal (00:00:33):
We're still stingy Jews, here. It's really quite expensive, and you and I are funding this whole thing ourselves. I think, at the very least, we should, at least, promote our tea business. You all see the production quality. I mean, the production quality is incredible. We have an amazing staff, tons of producers, and it's a little expensive.

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:51):
Yeah.

David Segal (00:00:51):
So I'm obsessed with tea. I built David's Tea. I left, many years ago, and Harley, actually-

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:57):
I can't believe we're doing this. This is perfect.

David Segal (00:00:58):
We're doing this because we have great tea, but we, also, we got to pay for Big Shot. Perfect. So Harley got me back into tea.

(00:01:06):
I would curate these green tea collections for you having trouble sleeping in the evenings. I'm like, "Oh, you got to drink... Switch coffee." You don't need 10 coffees today."

Harley Finkelstein (00:01:13):
If we're going to tell the story, let's tell the story.

David Segal (00:01:14):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:01:15):
I had been drinking so much. During the pandemic, I was by myself, obviously, like the rest of us were, and I was drinking a ton of coffee, and my anxiety was peaking. And, actually, you had said "You should switch off of coffee, in the afternoon and move to really high quality green tea."

David Segal (00:01:29):
The caffeine in green tea interacts differently. You don't get the big spike and crash.

Harley Finkelstein (00:01:32):
Yeah, it's like a calm alertness, almost, right?

David Segal (00:01:34):
A calm alertness and green tea's amazing, really high quality green tea. Then-

Harley Finkelstein (00:01:38):
But frankly, like most people, I had never had high quality green tea. Most of the tea that I had consumed in my life, it was like in a gift. I'd give a talk, somewhere, and they gave me a gift box or some sort of gift package, and there would be some random tea bags in there, but I'd, never, actually had really high-end green tea. So you, very kindly, started curating this box of incredibly high-end, amazing green tea, and you, also, began to sort of jerry-rig these accessories for me. You'd say, "Drop it, in here for three minutes, and, then, take it out. Make sure it's not steaming." And you just created this incredible tea set up for me.

(00:02:11):
In fact, you know this, but, next to my home office, I, now, have a little tea area that you, actually, created for me.

David Segal (00:02:17):
Right.

Harley Finkelstein (00:02:17):
But green tea, in particular, and having you curate this tea, for me, was this incredible new element of my life because it allowed me to stay really energized, really focused in the afternoon, without having any issue with sleeping.

David Segal (00:02:29):
And that was the inspiration for Fire Belly. Finally, I was like, you're like, "Let's do it. I'll be your partner." So we started Fire Belly Tea. Most people want to take a tea bag and dunk it in the water, and the reality is there's this rich experience you can get with tea, where you take the time to make it properly, whether it's green tea, black tea, oolong tea, herbal teas. We're doing something special with Fire Belly.

Harley Finkelstein (00:02:48):
Yeah. So Fire Belly is the highest, the best tea, and, actually, you got a chance to design every single accessory, yourself.

David Segal (00:02:55):
Absolutely.

Harley Finkelstein (00:02:55):
You went ahead, and figured out, "This is the best teacup. This is the best strainer for it." "This is the best whisk, in terms of how to make great matcha." But this is the best tea, and the best tea products ever, and please buy our tea. We need a way to pay for more Big Shot episodes. So we don't need your money, but we would appreciate you buying some amazing green tea from firebellytea.com. It is not just a pitch. It is, also, the greatest tea, ever, and it would make us really happy.

David Segal (00:03:22):
If you don't like it, we'll give you your money back.

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:24):
No, no, we're not doing that. We're not giving the money back.

David Segal (00:03:25):
Why not?

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:25):
We're not. We're keeping your money-

David Segal (00:03:26):
They're going to love it.

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:27):
... But you're going to love it.

David Segal (00:03:27):
You're going to love it.

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:28):
All of a sudden, you're such a big shot, you're giving the people's money back. Don't give away... Don't give away [inaudible 00:03:32].

(00:03:32):
Give it as a gift. It makes a great gift. It's a great gift. It's great tea, it's great accessories. You, actually, will really, really love it, and allow us to pay for more of these big shot episodes. So that's our pitch, and all of you must be laughing, wherever you're sitting, right now, watching this. We don't care. We have,

David Segal (00:03:48):
We, actually, know tea well, though.

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:49):
We know. We, also, know e-commerce, well, too.

David Segal (00:03:51):
Yeah, true.

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:51):
So we know e-commerce, we know tea, Fire Belly Tea. Go buy some, help us pay for more Big Shot episodes. So I know our audience, I know our answer. They're going to say, "Yeah-"

David Segal (00:04:00):
Yeah. They need the code.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:01):
"We love your tea. We want to buy from you. We want to support Big Shot. Is there a coupon code? I'm going to get my aunts'..." Or someone, in my family's going to call me and be like, "I love the tea. It's really great. Can I get a discount?" So is there a code we can give them?

David Segal (00:04:15):
Big Shot 15.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:15):
Big Shot 15? Okay.

David Segal (00:04:16):
Big Shot 15.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:17):
Use code Big Shot 15, for 15% off our tea and tea accessories. And, if you don't like the tea, you don't like the accessories, David will give you your money back. I will not. He will. That's it.

David Segal (00:04:27):
I'll give you your money back. I gotcha.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:29):
All right. I won't.

(00:04:33):
So, for those of you that are just tuning in, make sure to watch part one, if you can, before you watch part two, because part one is incredible. There's amazing stories, there's amazing context.

David Segal (00:04:43):
We talk about him having to win over his father-in-law, his first hotel, how he gets into the hotel business by he ends up building a motel for someone else, and does something completely unconventional, that adds a ton of value that most people wouldn't think about doing. And, now, part two, this is just-

Harley Finkelstein (00:05:01):
Yeah.

David Segal (00:05:01):
This is incredible. We follow him, through each hotel. Some of them don't go so well, and he ends up in hot water. He changes the entire Four Seasons business model. He

Harley Finkelstein (00:05:11):
He, also, goes really deep, in part two, in terms of his love, and his relation with Rosalie, and how that love has been one of the superpowers, the secret sauces to not only his life, but to the entire Four Seasons Empire. He talks about work-life balance in a way that, frankly, I've never heard anyone articulate that. He provides incredible wisdom, in terms of how all of us should be thinking about our own joie de vivre, how we should be living a fuller life. The connection that he has to Rosalie is so inspiring.

David Segal (00:05:39):
Right, and we learn about some key moments, in his life, that caused him to look at his own philanthropy, and he ends up being a major sponsor, and frankly, one of the reasons why, Betty Fox, the mother of Terry Fox, the famous Terry Fox Run, once, said, "There would be no Terry Fox Run without Issy Sharp."-

Harley Finkelstein (00:05:55):
Amazing.

David Segal (00:05:56):
... And what he does there. He creates this worldwide movement around it, and it's just remarkable.

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:02):
Yeah.

David Segal (00:06:04):
Yeah, and, then, at the end, he hits us, when we just we're-

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:07):
You're not supposed to talk about this, yet. You're not supposed to tease us like that.

David Segal (00:06:10):
I got to tease this out just a little bit. No?

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:11):
Okay. Just a little bit. We ask him at the end to give us one final piece of advice, and his answer left my jaw, and David's jaw on the floor.

David Segal (00:06:21):
On the floor. On the floor.

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:22):
I could not believe he said that, and he does, and honestly-

David Segal (00:06:26):
He's right.

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:26):
I've been thinking about it for a long time.

David Segal (00:06:28):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:29):
That is one of the best pieces of advice-

David Segal (00:06:30):
Totally.

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:30):
... That I've, ever, received in my life.

David Segal (00:06:32):
Absolutely. You got to watch this.

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:34):
You got to watch this.

(00:06:35):
What I think stands out more, for most people that are going to watch, most people that have experienced the Four Seasons, it is less about the real estate, as a visitor, as a consumer, at the hotel, and more about the service. And the service at the Four Seasons, and I want to talk a bit about the Golden Rule. I want to talk a little bit about how you cultivated this culture of incredible hospitality, in a way that I don't think most people experience at any other hotel. When you, first, sat down, I told you that I've been on the road for a couple weeks, now, and one of the things that's sort of like a warm blanket is when I walk into a Four Seasons. I'm on the road, and there's a lot going on. I'm stressed. I haven't slept in a while. It's airplane to airplane, but you walk in to this oasis that is the Four Seasons, today... And the real estate, obviously, supports that culture, and the environment supports that hospitality, but there's something about the service that you experience as a guest of the Four Seasons that is, unequivocally, different.

David Segal (00:07:41):
And every single one, too.

Harley Finkelstein (00:07:42):
And every single one has it. And there's a consistency to it, but each one has its own flavor. When did customer service, and when did that feeling of hospitality become such a cornerstone of the Four Seasons brand?

Issy Sharp (00:07:58):
That took time to, not envision, but to create. Because, as I said, we started with this hospitality host concept, and that's really what differentiated us, in England, and what I knew made us a success, because in England, at that time, if you went into the Dorchester, the Connaught or Claridges, if you weren't dressed, properly, you couldn't even come into the hotel.

Harley Finkelstein (00:08:31):
Yeah. Black T-shirt wouldn't work, there. That's right.

Issy Sharp (00:08:33):
And they looked down upon you.

Harley Finkelstein (00:08:35):
Ah, interesting.

Issy Sharp (00:08:36):
If you were checking the front desk, they would look up, and say, "Yes, we might have a room for..." That attitude was very much social class, there. That was Europe at that time, there was a social-

Harley Finkelstein (00:08:51):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (00:08:51):
... Class. So our hotel was very different. London, we hired the people, and told them, "This is not how we judge others. It's not the Dorchester. We're not Claridges. We are the inn on the park." And so London was a repeat of the other hotels. Ian Monroe, again, he wasn't going to run London because he was, already, running the other two hotels. But he hired people, and explained, "Look, this is how we operate. We're not judging people, and we treat everybody the same. It's not whether he's an important person, or a worker. Everybody who is coming into the hotel, or who works in the hotel, there's an egalitarian equal approach to attitude about people." So London became the best hotel, and I knew why, because we didn't build a grand hotel. When you went into these other hotels-

David Segal (00:09:58):
Yeah, Connaught or Dorchester.

Issy Sharp (00:10:00):
... They were Palaces.

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:00):
Yeah, sure.

Issy Sharp (00:10:00):
Right? So we were a modern building. Nothing impressive, compared to them, but our people, the service changed how people were treated in London.

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:13):
Crazy.

David Segal (00:10:14):
But you, also, took care of your own people. One thing that really stuck out, for me, is that Four Seasons employees are allowed to stay for free at the hotels, which is quite unique.

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:24):
That's totally unique. We did our research on this.

David Segal (00:10:26):
Right?

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:26):
No other hotel does that.

Issy Sharp (00:10:28):
But those things happened over time. How do you get people to respond to what you're talking about... What you're talking about, the service aspect, so that happened over many years, but London made it clear, to me, that service, and attitude was the key for Four Seasons. So if you sort of fast-forward, as we're starting to build more hotels, and hiring people, I figured if this is going to be an industry that we're going to compete in, we, certainly, are never going to compete by being bigger, because there's Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt. These were name brand hotels that controlled the marketplace.

(00:11:21):
I said, "We got to have something that's going to make us different, that is sustainable." Because, as you, both, know from your own business, if you don't have a sustainable, competitive advantage? You're run over, pretty quick, because everybody sees what you're doing, they copy you-

David Segal (00:11:38):
They can just copy it.

Issy Sharp (00:11:38):
Yeah.

David Segal (00:11:39):
[inaudible 00:11:39] mote

Issy Sharp (00:11:39):
"I can do it better." So you have to have something they cannot do better.

Harley Finkelstein (00:11:42):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:11:44):
Sustainable, competitive advantage. So I'm telling our people, "I think the only way, we're going to be able to compete, in this business, because we haven't got the capital to become big, is we're going to have to make our service, our distinguishing feature. That is how we are going to compete, and to be able to continue to grow." That got a lot of laughs, and cheers and "Yeah, sure." "You're not really serious."

David Segal (00:12:20):
It seems gimmicky, almost?

Issy Sharp (00:12:23):
"Issy, everybody does-"

Harley Finkelstein (00:12:23):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:12:24):
... Service. How can you make service... It's intangible. What are you talking about?" So the senior people, in the company, really, wouldn't even think about it. Now, I'm in control of the company. As you know, control is a privilege, and it's a great benefit, if you don't have to ask other people. So I didn't want to talk... I wanted to figure out how do you it? How can we make service? And, at that time, we're talking, now, 1970s. McDonald's was the number one fast food service company, at that time, and I know that their kids, who worked behind the counter, always, had this upbeat, pleasant, can-do attitude. 16 year olds who, always, had a smile, and were doing things to help. You know, always pleasing the customer? So I had a friend who was the president of McDonald's Canada, George Kohan, and I said, "George, can I come and spend a day, in your orientation, when you're hiring new kids? Can I?" So he said, "Sure." So I spent a day [inaudible 00:13:41]-

Harley Finkelstein (00:13:42):
At the McDonald's orientation?

Issy Sharp (00:13:43):
... Sitting down with all these kids at McDonald's-

David Segal (00:13:46):
That's great.

Issy Sharp (00:13:46):
... Orientation program.

Harley Finkelstein (00:13:47):
The whole day?

(00:13:47):
It's like you're running a fancy hotel in London, England, and you're sitting at the McDonald's orientation. Think about that.

David Segal (00:13:54):
Did you wear the hat, and the whole thing?

Issy Sharp (00:13:55):
I had hair, so I didn't wear a hat. So I come, eight o'clock in the morning, and I'm sitting with the same notebook they give you, and I'm listening, going through all the hype that creates.

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:11):
Would you like fries with that?

David Segal (00:14:12):
Yeah. Always, ask if they want to upsize their drink.

Issy Sharp (00:14:14):
And they showed the technical thing. But I noticed that the one thing that was the most important, that they focused on, was this film that they had, that had to be 15 to 20 years old, the way that people were dressed, et cetera. But they were showing that film as the number one focus point, for all these kids. "Now, listen, see what's happening in there, and, then, I will explain it to you." So they focused on this one film to try to get these kids to understand what service was all about.

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:53):
Like an instructional video?

Issy Sharp (00:14:55):
It was only attitude, all about attitude. Everything came down to attitude, attitude, attitude. So I'm thinking about it and I say, "You have to get something, then, that sticks.", because, at that time, McDonald's ads on TV changed every month. Every month. Millions of dollars, and, here, on the most important thing that they wanted the message-

David Segal (00:15:22):
One single video.

Issy Sharp (00:15:23):
15 years old, because the message was current, never went out of style.

Harley Finkelstein (00:15:29):
Timeless.

Issy Sharp (00:15:30):
Timeless message. So I figured "If you have a timeless message to talk about your employees? Then, you don't have to change it. You don't have to keep reinventing the wheel, as times change."

David Segal (00:15:45):
Because it's what you stand for.

Issy Sharp (00:15:48):
So, I take all our senior people, and I say, "I want you to come with me, and we're going to spend a day on McDonald's. Do it, again."

Harley Finkelstein (00:15:57):
Wow. You brought the-

David Segal (00:15:59):
So you did it twice?

Harley Finkelstein (00:15:59):
... Four Seasons' staff to McDonald's?

Issy Sharp (00:16:01):
All my senior people, seven of them. These are the senior people. The guy heads in hotel development, everything.

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:07):
Can you imagine going to your senior team, your executive team-

David Segal (00:16:09):
"We're go to McDonald's, follow me."

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:11):
"Okay, I got this great idea. Here's how we're going to go, and figure out hospitality. Okay, we're here. We're to go sit in on the orientation for McDonald's with a bunch of teenagers."? They must have been mind blown?

Issy Sharp (00:16:23):
They said, "You're joking-

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:24):
Of course.

Issy Sharp (00:16:24):
... We got better things to do." I said, "I know you do, but we're going."

David Segal (00:16:27):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (00:16:28):
So "You're the boss.", "So, you have to do what the boss said." So they go, and they're sitting, and they're joking, and laughing and making jokes about it. And I'm sitting, and I'm taking all this in. So one of the guys says, "Look, they're selling hamburgers, and we're selling filet mignon." I say, "I know what we're selling. It's how we sell it." So I knew we were in trouble. There's no way that I could get this message down to these people. Because that gave me the idea that the message that we might use is the Golden Rule, because it's motherhood. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." What could be simpler, in telling an individual "That is how we are going to manage our workforce."? These senior people joked about it, laughed about it, and they said, "Look, that's philosophy. We're running a business. How are you going to get that across?" I said, "I don't know, but that's what we're going to do."

(00:17:52):
So my first task, at that time, that I had to terminate all these senior people.

David Segal (00:17:59):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (00:17:59):
So I'm talking about people who were very competent. They knew how to run a hotel. They knew all the business aspects, that's how they grew up. They were competent in their field, and one of these was a very close, personal friend. So I decided we're going to start over, and, over the next couple years, I changed the senior people in the company.

David Segal (00:18:29):
They weren't willing to live the brand.

Issy Sharp (00:18:32):
They would give it lip service-

David Segal (00:18:33):
Right.

Issy Sharp (00:18:34):
... But if they weren't going to walk the talk, if their actions were not going to speak louder, than their words, how could you do it? Because if you can't get the message down, to the bottom of the triangle, because those are the people who are talking to the customer-

David Segal (00:18:50):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (00:18:50):
So if I can't get that message down?

David Segal (00:18:53):
It's never going to work.

Issy Sharp (00:18:54):
I'm spitting in the wind.

Harley Finkelstein (00:18:55):
Does that mean you, actually, had to part ways with a good friend of yours?

Issy Sharp (00:18:58):
Good friend.

Harley Finkelstein (00:18:59):
And so the sacrifice you were willing to make? That's a pretty big sacrifice to, when you're working with a good friend, to say, "Look, this is not going to work out because I need you to live by these principles, not just repeat them to me."

Issy Sharp (00:19:09):
Exactly.

Harley Finkelstein (00:19:10):
Like lip service.

Issy Sharp (00:19:11):
Exactly.

Harley Finkelstein (00:19:12):
There's this quote that I read, that I really love. I'll read it to you. "The reason for our success is no secret" It's about the Four Seasons, of course. "It comes down to one single principle that transcends time, and geography, religion and culture. It's the Golden Rule. The simple idea that if you treat people well, the way you would treat you would like to be treated, they will do the same." You also, said this, "Long-term success is never achieved on your own. The phrase "A self-made man" is a myth. All along the way, we need support." So, not only did you codify the Golden Rule, but you've ensured that everyone around you helped to disseminate it. How did you maintain that? How did you make sure? How did you ensure it stuck, over the long period of time, especially, as you go to over a hundred hotels around the world?

Issy Sharp (00:20:02):
Well, the message that we started with, had people who did believe, because that was their work ethic. This wasn't new. This wasn't something you had to invent.

Harley Finkelstein (00:20:14):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:20:15):
This is how you had been brought up.

Harley Finkelstein (00:20:17):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:20:18):
So the people that, finally, I did hire, understood and believed and say, "Yeah, I'd buy into it." So we set out to talk about it, rather than to put a memo out. So I, and a man who was, now, Head of Hotel Operations, his name was John Sharp... Not a relative, just a very hardworking, bright, bright... He could have been a doctor, so that was the caliber of people.

(00:20:52):
He and I set out to talk to each hotel. Met and talked to the senior people, and what I did, was I wrote out a Mission Statement, that is still the Mission Statement of today. I shouldn't say I wrote it out. I talked to our Head of Marketing, Doug Hall and said, "Doug, I want to write something about, and it's all about the Golden Rule, and I want to talk about it, our goals, our beliefs, our principles. So I don't want to use the word, the Golden Rule. I just want to talk about our goals, our beliefs in a way that people can, 'Hey, that makes sense.'"

(00:21:31):
So I used that, when I went out, and talked to the hotels. Sat with the senior people, went through this Mission Statement, so to speak, and said, "Do you think you can live with this? Are you prepared to work with this principal?" And most of them said, "Yeah, I think we can do that, but how are you going to get everybody else to do it?" I said, "Well, you're the senior people in this company, in this hotel. If you do it-"

Harley Finkelstein (00:22:00):
They'll do it.

Issy Sharp (00:22:02):
"... And you come across people below you who don't? Make a change, so you, as the leaders, in this hotel, are going to be responsible for making sure all the people below you are going to walk the talk."

David Segal (00:22:18):
They're the keepers of the culture, and if they can't do it, there's no way they can disseminate it to others.

Issy Sharp (00:22:24):
And they said, "What if they don't do it?" I said, "Well, then, we have to cut bait."

David Segal (00:22:29):
Yeah. This is what we stand for. We do know things don't stop changing, but what you stand for, never changes.

Issy Sharp (00:22:33):
Yeah.

David Segal (00:22:34):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:22:34):
So they said, "You mean, if some of the senior people?", like they're talking about their peers-

David Segal (00:22:40):
Right.

Issy Sharp (00:22:41):
... Because not everybody, necessarily, buy... "What about them?" I said, "The rule applies to everybody, so, if you see things that aren't right, there are senior people above you, who will take action." That took a few years.

David Segal (00:22:57):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:22:58):
But what's amazing, here, is, the backdrop of all this, I believe we're in the '70s, now, right?

Issy Sharp (00:23:02):
Correct.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:03):
Now, my understanding is, the economy was not great in the '70s.

Issy Sharp (00:23:05):
No. No.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:05):
We had huge, huge inflation. You're building, I believe, a project in Vancouver, was it-

Issy Sharp (00:23:12):
Yeah. Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:12):
... With the Eaton family? Cadillac Fairview, TD Bank.

Issy Sharp (00:23:17):
Right.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:17):
You could have lost it, all, right? The costs are rising.

Issy Sharp (00:23:18):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:18):
You have a fixed contract price. Here, you are, philosophizing about-

David Segal (00:23:21):
The Golden Rule.

Issy Sharp (00:23:23):
The Golden Rule.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:24):
And I imagine your CFO-

David Segal (00:23:27):
Yeah, and the business is going down the drain.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:27):
And the business is going down the drain. How do you get through that?

David Segal (00:23:30):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:23:31):
Well, one doesn't, necessarily, conflict with the other.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:36):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:23:37):
It was business problems, and you're right, Vancouver was going to be a disaster. And it wasn't like I knew that, because the principle that we were building, Vancouver was, already, a formula of success. That's how I got London. That's how other hotels that were built... You start a hotel, you build it, you own it, you run it. That's how the first six, seven hotels, we owned the real estate, or we leased the real estate, which is like ownership.

Harley Finkelstein (00:24:09):
Yeah. You have the real estate, you run the hotel itself. All of it is Four Seasons.

Issy Sharp (00:24:14):
So we're making money on the operation. We're making money on the real estate-

Harley Finkelstein (00:24:17):
Right.

Issy Sharp (00:24:17):
So it's good-

Harley Finkelstein (00:24:17):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:24:18):
... Very good business. Until Vancouver, because the costs, as you're right, inflation hit, and I'm responsible for the cost, and I don't have that kind of money. So I approached the three landlords, so to speak, and say, "Look, I can't go ahead with this. Spent all the money I've got, and, clearly, we're not going to be able to finish this hotel, so I'm at your mercy, and here are the keys to my company." So they said, "Look, we don't want to run your company, and we want this hotel to be what you've, already, built." So I said, "I haven't got the money to live up to this contract I've got with you."

(00:25:10):
So they said, "Well, what if we reorganize?" I said, "Well, that'd be different." They said, "Well, you go ahead, and finish the hotel, and we'll talk about it, after." So I went on spending money I didn't have, and after the hotel was finished, we had a meeting with Thompson, Fred Eaton, and it wasn't... Eve Diamond or Neil Wood.

Harley Finkelstein (00:25:41):
Wow.

Issy Sharp (00:25:41):
Cadillac Fairview. I said, "Okay." They rewrote the deal, to make it reasonable for me to continue operating the company, and this hotel. So, with a handshake-

David Segal (00:25:58):
Why did they do that?

Issy Sharp (00:26:00):
Because I lived up to doing what I said I could do, for them. Vancouver became a phenomenal success. It was the center of Vancouver-

David Segal (00:26:12):
And, at one point, it looked like it wouldn't happen?

Issy Sharp (00:26:15):
Right, and they had built these two office buildings, that they wanted the hotel to be the feature, and it was. It was spectacular. So I lived up to the promise of what I said I could do for them, and they didn't need my money.

David Segal (00:26:34):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:26:35):
So for them, we had made a deal, and they rewrote the contract so that the rent we could pay would be reasonable, and that changed the company, completely.

David Segal (00:26:50):
The business model of Four Seasons changed.

Issy Sharp (00:26:52):
From that point forward, I decided we can no longer own the real estate of hotel. But I believed in real estate, and I said, "But we should, still, take a participation in ownership." So I arranged a business model that we would become a management company, but we would, still, take an equity position that we could afford. And I determined... Now, remember, I still don't have that kind of capital, so I worked out a formula that the management fees we would earn on a new hotel that we would build, over five years would be X dollars, and I would take 70% of that. Because I didn't have an overhead, so I knew 70% of that fee is clear cash. I go to the bank, and say, "Look, over five years, I can pay you back, out of these fees that I will earn, if I get this deal. So if you lend me the money-"

David Segal (00:27:52):
I can get the deal.

Issy Sharp (00:27:54):
"... I could take a piece of the equity and, probably, make this deal." So that became the business model.

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:00):
So a sweat equity?

Issy Sharp (00:28:02):
Well, right-

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:03):
You're saying, "I'm going to work the management fee, and part of that's going to be my equity."

Issy Sharp (00:28:07):
Right-

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:07):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:28:08):
But I'm borrowing the money-

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:09):
Right.

Issy Sharp (00:28:10):
... And putting it in, cash on delivery.

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:11):
Okay.

Issy Sharp (00:28:13):
But the principle of the business deal was that, if there was additional cash required, and if I had a 10% or 15% ownership, I wanted the privilege to reduce my equity, or put up the cash. But I would never be obligated for money I didn't have. So my equity might go to zero. So I could lose my equity-

David Segal (00:28:36):
Right.

Issy Sharp (00:28:37):
... But I would have the management contract, which would give me the income.

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:43):
But that meant that you, effectively, if you're going to be the management side of these hotels, you have to be the best, in the world, at that management. When you're only-

Issy Sharp (00:28:53):
We had to earn our rights.

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:54):
You have to earn the right to be the management of-

Issy Sharp (00:28:57):
Right, because they could change the name on the door.

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:57):
Because they can think that they can say, "It's not going to be Four Seasons, it's going to be something else, right now."

David Segal (00:29:00):
That's right. Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:29:01):
Yeah. So you have to be so good at that management piece, that everybody wants you to be their partner?

Issy Sharp (00:29:06):
Well, at the beginning, remember, we had seven, eight hotels, "Who are you? What do you do?"

David Segal (00:29:11):
That's right.

Issy Sharp (00:29:11):
So you make a deal.

Harley Finkelstein (00:29:13):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:29:14):
I'm a good salesman. I know that. I make a good first impression, and I never disappoint, so I live up to what I say, and I can be a charming partner.

Harley Finkelstein (00:29:28):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:29:29):
So I've been able to make very good business relations that exist, to this day. So I could make a good business deal, which I did.

Harley Finkelstein (00:29:42):
You don't just make a good business deal. You've made good business deals across multiple different cultures. I think one of the things that I found fascinating in Rosalie's book is she describes you going to Japan, to talk to, I believe it was the industrial bank. And he starts telling you this story about the Shoguns, and how they would exchange their wives, as sort of a guarantee that they wouldn't be held hostage.

Issy Sharp (00:30:04):
That's right.

Harley Finkelstein (00:30:05):
And, then, at the end of this nice lunch, or dinner, he turns to you, and goes, "I really want to meet your wife." And you said, "As long as you don't hold her hostage.", and he burns out laughing. He says, "We're going to do lots of business together." Every culture has different norms, different senses of humor.

Issy Sharp (00:30:22):
Sure.

Harley Finkelstein (00:30:22):
How are you able to do that? Not just be a charming salesperson, in your own environment, but, then, to take that, and do it across all these different countries, and cultures?

Issy Sharp (00:30:34):
I think it's my upbringing. I've never felt uncomfortable being, and relating, and dealing with people at different levels, or at low levels. So it's just, I think, a personality trait. A combination of my mother, and my father. My mother's chutzpah, which gives me the confidence, and belief, and my father's good nature.

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:05):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:31:06):
Always, nice to be around, always, positive. Always, never a negative word out of his mouth. So I think that combination of a personality has allowed me to make good impressions-

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:21):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:31:24):
And I've done that, through dealing with the most tough business people of New York, and to the more gracious people in the far East. So it's been a part of my DNA.

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:40):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:31:42):
But the business model is what has got us through all these economic downturns. So when interest rates went up to 21%, in the '80s, if you're not caught with having a financial burden that you have to worry about... The pandemic, hotels closed. If we were responsible for the ownership, we'd lose those hotels, but the partners who own those hotels have a lot of deep pockets. So the business model of us becoming a management company, we, still, will put money into the hotels that we're building, to this day. We'll, either, invest in equity, or invest in a management contract. So I'm, still, a believer in real estate. I know, if you can hold onto it, if you've got staying power, you will always make money in real estate. It's only the time that you're forced to sell, if you must, that you lose.

Harley Finkelstein (00:32:48):
Do you think that's still the case going forward? Do you think that's a timeless principle?

Issy Sharp (00:32:51):
Yeah, it's timeless because real estate's a diminishing product.

Harley Finkelstein (00:32:57):
Yeah. There's not enough.

Issy Sharp (00:32:57):
It's just used up.

Harley Finkelstein (00:32:58):
That's right.

Issy Sharp (00:32:59):
You know, look downtown, here.

Harley Finkelstein (00:33:00):
Right.

Issy Sharp (00:33:00):
It's ridiculous.

David Segal (00:33:01):
They're not making more land.

Harley Finkelstein (00:33:02):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:33:02):
Right. So now, that's gone, now, where else do you go? So the ownership of that land will appreciate overtime, always. The buildings might depreciate, and give you a tax write-off, but the asset, itself, will, always, continue to increase in value.

David Segal (00:33:19):
By the way, we have a tradition on Big Shot, where we make a deal on every episode, so we'll talk after about how we can get in on one.

Harley Finkelstein (00:33:25):
I think, actually, we just need to see Fire Belly Tea, across all the Four Seasons.

David Segal (00:33:27):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:33:27):
Issy, I want to ask you something, sort on the personal side. David, and I have been entrepreneurs, like you, for most of our lives. I started my first DJ company when I was 13 years old, because I wanted to be a DJ for Bar Mitzvahs. Nobody would hire me, so I hired myself. So entrepreneurship is something that is not only a passion for us, but, also, how we've built our lives, and our livelihoods, and support our families. One thing that we struggle with sometimes, we, both, have incredible partners in our life, women in our lives. Our wives, Emily, for David and Lindsay, for me, and, often, we struggle with the balance, if you can say that.

(00:34:07):
It's more like we don't really believe in work-life balance. It's more like work-life harmony, for us. We try to combine all these things. But one of the things in preparation for this interview, that David, and I kept stopping, and having these sidebar conversations about, is your relationship with Rosalie, and what we'd love to learn from you is how do you balance being a great entrepreneur, a great leader with, also, being a great father, and a great husband? I'm not sure. We try our best. We're doing whatever we can.

Issy Sharp (00:34:36):
It's a constant adjustment.

Harley Finkelstein (00:34:38):
It is, and we, sometimes, feel guilty about not being there, all the time. David has three kids. I have two kids. Can you talk a little bit about how you've sort of designed that in your life? Because there's something so profound... You read it in the pages of Rosalie's book, but any research anyone does on Issy Sharp, your wife comes up. And again, you talk about that there's no self-made man or self-made person. I'd love to know, from you, what we can learn from that, because there's something so special about what you, and your wife have.

Issy Sharp (00:35:10):
Well, you're right. I think the relationship that you have, that is the most important support you will ever get, is from the partner you have chosen to live with, regardless of who that is, and your family. There's nothing more important to everybody. It's just innate. You cannot ever, ever give up the love, and devotion you have for your children. I've, often, said the only true love that exists is the love a parent has for their child, and it doesn't go the other way. It's involuntary. You cannot help the feelings you have for your children.

Harley Finkelstein (00:35:51):
It's biological.

Issy Sharp (00:35:52):
It's there.

Harley Finkelstein (00:35:53):
Yeah, it's there.

Issy Sharp (00:35:54):
And a woman has a stronger connection. That umbilical cord never gets cut, so that's what we're all faced with. Now, relationships you have with your wives, or husbands changes, and that's what breaks up a lot of businesses, and marriages.

(00:36:20):
If you're fortunate... Look, when you get married, you're young. What do you know?

Harley Finkelstein (00:36:23):
Right.

Issy Sharp (00:36:25):
It's sex, it's emotions. "Hey, you're good-looking.", and all that. These things go into those, first, of relationship building, and it's a question does that... Doesn't change, but what else happens, in the course of your growing up together? And I think the fact that, if you continue having the respect, and appreciation of your spouses... Appreciation, never losing the fact that they're special, the same feeling you had because of the hormones which drove you to get together, does, now, move into a different level of knowing the person, who the person is, and continuing to appreciate, and respect that. So, when you ask them a question, you're talking about something, you want to know what they have to say. You're not just being polite to say, "What do you think about this?"

(00:37:32):
You want that answer from that person, and I have found over the years that appreciation gets stronger, and stronger. This morning, when I'm talking to Rosalie, and doing something, and she does something. It just had a string of my heart was pulled because I've never stopped appreciating who she is, and what she has given me, in terms of my life, by what I've learned or support her... And, as you say, your priorities, and I didn't have the experience, and/or understanding of having my priorities in the right place, bringing up the kids. Fortunately, Rosalie filled in the gaps. I think, when I talk about it, now, the regrets I have, are that I left a lot of that part of my life, on the cutting room floor.

Harley Finkelstein (00:38:44):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:38:45):
I know that.

Harley Finkelstein (00:38:45):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:38:47):
Kids say, "No, Dad, you're wrong. You were, always, there." And Rosie, now, says, "As much as we..." In her book, she says, "As much as we try to tell him-"

Harley Finkelstein (00:38:58):
Yeah, he doesn't want to hear.

Issy Sharp (00:38:58):
"... His regrets are, still, there".

Harley Finkelstein (00:39:00):
Yeah.

David Segal (00:39:00):
Could you have done it, otherwise?

Issy Sharp (00:39:03):
No. You're young. Your priorities are all in a different mode of what you're trying to do. Did I have to take all those trips to London? Of course.

David Segal (00:39:16):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:39:16):
Deal wouldn't happen. That's the result.

Harley Finkelstein (00:39:18):
You show up.

Issy Sharp (00:39:19):
Could I have said "No, I'll make it a telephone call and we can talk about the same thing"? Because when I used to go over, we didn't accomplish, anything. We would have lunch, we'd talk, and we'd go back. So, unfortunately, I think I left a lot of the role I played in, as a father, I believe, but I was there-

Harley Finkelstein (00:39:44):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (00:39:44):
... Doing my job, when I could. And the kids don't agree with me. Sometimes, when I'm holding a town hall and the kid, one of my sons in the audience, and that question, always, comes up, and he said, "Look, Dad, I'm here. You are wrong." So, I think, they see it differently, and it's tough. You know you don't build a business by going from eight to five, in the morning and afternoon.

Harley Finkelstein (00:40:16):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:40:17):
It's a 24/7 job. And when they, always, say, "How can I learn to become an entrepreneur?", you can't.

Harley Finkelstein (00:40:25):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:40:25):
You're born with that innate gene, because that's what drives you. And, as much as you have the other priorities clear, in your vision, some people are better at it than others. So I'll say, it's tough, when you're young, to know the right thing to do at the right time, but having a spouse, partner that's there to fill in, for you, you, probably, take advantage of it.

Harley Finkelstein (00:41:01):
Yeah.

David Segal (00:41:02):
They're so patient, right? And, I imagine it's a two-way street, but, from when you're 20, or whatever, when you meet, you're developing, all along the way, and I would think, sometimes, one partner develops a little faster, and, then, this one catches up. And, then, you know?

Issy Sharp (00:41:17):
No, she's never.... Rosalie, from my point of view, has never been negative, has never asked me not to take that trip. Ever. Knowing, full well, that I'm going to be gone a week, and she's going to be four kids, and three in diapers, without having help sometimes.

Harley Finkelstein (00:41:35):
You guys were partners, though, so it allowed you to sort of divide and conquer. We talked about Rosalie, and, obviously, in the book, one of the things that comes out, that's so clear, is her pride in you, and how proud she is of what... You've built what you've built, together. Were your mom, and dad around, to see the success that you built?

Issy Sharp (00:41:56):
They were, to the point where we were. Not where we are today, but enough of a difference, in life, for them to see it, and [foreign language 00:42:07]. So

Harley Finkelstein (00:42:06):
[foreign language 00:42:07] is what we're, all, trying to achieve for our parents, too.

David Segal (00:42:11):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:42:11):
So that's part of gratification.

David Segal (00:42:16):
Sure.

Harley Finkelstein (00:42:16):
Your dad, I believe, lived till the early '80s, right?

Issy Sharp (00:42:19):
My dad lived to 103.

David Segal (00:42:20):
Wow.

Harley Finkelstein (00:42:21):
Wow. Incredible.

Issy Sharp (00:42:22):
And he did enjoy the-

Harley Finkelstein (00:42:24):
You look fantastic-

Issy Sharp (00:42:26):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:42:26):
... And you could see, I imagine you get it from him, mostly?

Issy Sharp (00:42:30):
Yeah. We've got good genes.

Harley Finkelstein (00:42:32):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:42:32):
Longevity gene-

Harley Finkelstein (00:42:33):
Yeah. Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:42:35):
... That we both inherited, goes a long way to help you. So, no, they did. They were around to see the glamour of what Four Seasons became.

Harley Finkelstein (00:42:48):
What about the philanthropy, too? You've done so much on philanthropy, whether, it's your donations to Mount Sinai, SickKids, the Performance Center for the Arts, which we, both [inaudible 00:42:59]-

David Segal (00:42:59):
We, both walk a lot and[inaudible 00:43:00].

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:00):
We took a walk, last night, to go see it, just in preparation for this.

David Segal (00:43:02):
[inaudible 00:43:03] Guy, tomorrow, you know what I mean?

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:04):
It's such a beautiful building.

Issy Sharp (00:43:06):
It's gorgeous. [inaudible 00:43:07] it's-

David Segal (00:43:06):
Incredible.

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:07):
But there's one thing that we really want to ask you about.

David Segal (00:43:10):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:10):
So most people, I don't think, know this, but Betty Fox, Terry Fox, famous Canadian, once, said, "Without Isadore Sharp, there would be no Terry Fox Run."

David Segal (00:43:24):
Right.

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:27):
I'd love to hear the story on how that got-

David Segal (00:43:29):
Did you not have enough on your plate at that point?

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:29):
Exactly.

David Segal (00:43:30):
There wasn't enough going on in your life to start-

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:34):
I'm not going on Fox Run. You had come off a difficult time. You're building this business, and, here, you hear about this kid who's running, and nobody's really donating, I believe, at early days.

Issy Sharp (00:43:45):
No, you're right, and, I guess, because of my problem that Rosie and I faced with our son dying from cancer... That's something that's with you forever.

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:05):
How old was your son, when he died from cancer?

Issy Sharp (00:44:06):
17. Turning 18.

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:07):
17 years old. Wow.

Issy Sharp (00:44:10):
So the loss of a son, for any family, is an unnatural event. Especially, when they're young on that. That's with you, forever. Over time, you're able to, and when that occurred, we had three other kids, and the trauma and tragedy, you've got to make sure it doesn't get worse than what it is. So both Rosie and I independently... Didn't talk about it, but independently, we, both, approached it the same way with "We can't cause this to be hurtful for our other kids." So we sucked it up, as best we could. We didn't cause each other a problem, because a lot of times families break up because each person is so deep in their grief, but we didn't. We weren't sharing or displaying grief and what you do? You build up a shield, that when you're going to a social event, a Bar Mitzvah, wedding, et cetera, you're going to hear stories that are going to affect you. So you really build up that preparation, knowing there's going to be things said that's going to bother you. But, sometimes, there's something happens you're not expecting, and the tears flow.

Harley Finkelstein (00:45:42):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:45:42):
You just can't stop it.

(00:45:43):
So I think, I, like a lot of people who have been affected, have a different connection when you deal with cancer-

David Segal (00:45:52):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (00:45:52):
So with Terry Fox, what he set out to do, and what he talked about, the suffering that he wanted to do something about, so the pain would stop, resonated with me in a way that I figured, "We got to help this kid." So I had somebody who went out, and tracked him when he, first, started. Her name was Bev. Her name was Bev Norris, and she reported back. She said, "It's terrible. People that don't believe him, they think it's some gimmick, advertising stunt. How could a kid on one leg run across Canada?" And she said, "Cars are, almost, running him off the road, because they think he's just some advertising."

(00:46:35):
So I decided we'd try to do something, it'd be more visible, and put ads in the newspapers and magazines, which said something like, "We, Four Seasons will donate $10,000.", and I invited 999 other companies to join with Four Seasons to make it a $10 million run.

David Segal (00:46:59):
Amazing.

Issy Sharp (00:47:00):
And put ads in the newspapers, and he heard about it, and, then, called me, from middle of a highway, somewhere, I guess, and, in a voice, you could hear the tears. His voice was breaking down, saying, "I was just ready to throw in the towel, but if one person cares enough, that's all I need." And he kept going, and, then, it did take off. People started saying, "Hey, look what this kid has, already, done. A marathon, a day?" And he hit hard-

David Segal (00:47:37):
With one leg?

Harley Finkelstein (00:47:38):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:47:38):
Unbelievable. So when he came to Toronto, I did meet with him, and I held a big luncheon for him, an event that went well, and I said, "Look, Terry, this is bigger than you ever thought. This is much more than Canada. This is a world event. We should talk, now, and organize what could be done, when you get to Vancouver." And what was remarkable about this 18 year old kid? He was a mature adult, and he just said, very calmly, "No, I don't want to think about that, now." And I knew, then...

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:18):
He's not going to make it.

Issy Sharp (00:48:19):
He's not going to make it, because he was running, under pain-

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:24):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:48:25):
... And you could, almost, feel it when you're with him. So when he had to stop, I spoke to him, and his mother, and suggested that, if he wouldn't mind, I'd like to organize to do something, and that we'd, maybe, start a run. Not to finish his run, and not to make it a marathon of hope, but just a Terry Fox Annual Run of raising money for cancer, and sent him a telegram, outlining what we would try to do. He liked that idea, and he said, "But I don't want anybody to finish my run." And I said, "No, we'll just make it a family affair." So, now, it's going on to it's 43rd year, I think.

David Segal (00:49:09):
$850 million-

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:11):
850 million?

David Segal (00:49:12):
... Is what the Four Seasons Terry Fox Run has raised.

Issy Sharp (00:49:14):
And what occurred to me this year-

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:16):
Wow.

Issy Sharp (00:49:16):
I never thought of it, until this year, when I was making a speech to our crowd, that's an additional $850 million that would never have been raised, had we not started this Terry Fox Run.

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:29):
Yeah.

(00:49:31):
So in Terry's name, almost a billion dollars has been raised?

David Segal (00:49:37):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:49:38):
Remarkable. A young kid set out on an improbable journey, and-

David Segal (00:49:43):
Becomes a Canadian legend. Worldwide legend.

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:45):
A global legend. Yeah.

David Segal (00:49:46):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:49:46):
He's our Daniel Boone.

David Segal (00:49:48):
That's right.

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:49):
That's right.

Issy Sharp (00:49:49):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:49):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:49:50):
People that will talk about him-

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:51):
Right.

Issy Sharp (00:49:52):
For generations.

David Segal (00:49:54):
And if he doesn't strike a chord in your heart, and you don't end up giving him, or giving 10,000, and inviting the other 999 businesses in-

Harley Finkelstein (00:50:04):
What happens? Yeah.

David Segal (00:50:05):
He, maybe, quits and...

Issy Sharp (00:50:06):
Yeah. Could have quit.

Harley Finkelstein (00:50:08):
Issy, I want to finish up with a question that we ask all our guests, and we started by talking about why we're creating this archive of Jewish entrepreneurial stories. But there's one sort of theme, term, idea that keeps coming up, which is the idea of chutzpah and, I'm curious, in your own words, as you, what does chutzpah mean, to you?

Issy Sharp (00:50:34):
I think it's not a personality, as a braggart. I think, it's a personality that you have a subliminal belief in yourself, that when you believe with what you're doing, it will work. Even though, there's skeptics all around you, telling you why it won't work, all the reasons that they can give you. But that doesn't stop you from saying, "I know what you're saying is true." Because what they are telling you are facts of the past. And you say, "I know. You're not telling me something I haven't heard before, but I think this will work. I think. It's not going to deter me." You have an inner feeling, and you don't know where it comes from, but it's part of you, in terms of your ability to have the courage to be able to persevere against all the odds, and take, and accept the consequences.

(00:51:55):
Because if you are going to roll the dice with everything you own, and you may lose.

Harley Finkelstein (00:51:59):
You may lose. Yeah.

David Segal (00:51:59):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:52:01):
You may lose. So I think that that comes from your genes that you inherit. It's not what you learn in school, or you can read in books. It's your natural personality that gives you the drive, and the energy, as you well know. When people say, as Rosie, I think, said in her book, I could go to 10, 12 hotels in 15, 16 days. And she said, "I marvel at your physical energy, and intellectual capacity to, always, be on." And I'd say, "Rosalie, when you're doing something that you enjoy?"

David Segal (00:52:48):
It's not work.

Issy Sharp (00:52:50):
"You don't really get tired." It's something that's just human nature is giving you that extra strength to continue, and so it's an innate belief, that you're born with, in terms of how you develop as a child.

(00:53:12):
And I think it's not like being a narcissistic Trump. Not that at all. You don't have an ego. It's not like you're doing this, because, "Hey, look how good I am." So I think it's personality, and, I have to say, our Jewish heritage goes back a long way, that gives us the belief of "Can do." If it doesn't work? So be it.

David Segal (00:53:54):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:53:55):
But I'm going to give it my all. Something I tell the kids when they all ask these questions, I say, "Look, in your vocabulary when you're doing things, take the word if out of your vocabulary. Don't say, "If I would've studied, I could have passed things with honors.", "If I would've practiced, I could have run faster." That's bullshit. If is a crutch. You're afraid to say, "I gave it my all."

David Segal (00:54:26):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (00:54:27):
"I ran as fast as I could. I came last, but you know what? That's good. I know how fast I can run, now." So that is what the chutzpah is.

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:39):
Beautifully, said.

David Segal (00:54:41):
Indeed.

Issy Sharp (00:54:41):
They're able to say, "I'm giving it my best, and I'm making no excuses. If it doesn't work, I will say, 'Hey, I wasn't good enough-"

David Segal (00:54:51):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:51):
Wow.

Issy Sharp (00:54:52):
"... And that's okay'"

David Segal (00:54:53):
This has been an honor, and a privilege. Thank you.

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:59):
You know, David and I, as-

Issy Sharp (00:55:00):
What caused you guys to start to put this together?

Harley Finkelstein (00:55:04):
First of all, you have to give me a second, here. I'm a little bit taken aback by what you just said. David and I are proud, Jewish entrepreneurs, but we attribute a lot of our success, "When standing on the shoulders of giants..." Issy, you're that giant, whether, you know it, or not. This office that we're sitting in, right now, the companies that we have built, the projects that we work on, together, we have modeled our ambition, and our own ability to imagine what is possible, based on what you did-

David Segal (00:55:44):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:55:45):
... Watching you build what is, truly, one of the greatest companies, one of the greatest brands on the planet.

David Segal (00:55:51):
Our bedtime stories, and dinnertime stories were about the Issy Sharps of the world, and all these amazing, incredible Jewish entrepreneurs who came from very humble beginnings, to become titans of industry, and did so, against this backdrop of antisemitism, that we haven't known to the same degree as you did, in the '50s, and the '60s, and, even, the '40s, a bit, I'm sure. And what's our excuse, right? If you're able to overcome all these, whether, it be poverty, or these difficulties, antisemitism, people barring you from various institutions, can't get the right jobs. I know one of your architect jobs, you faced some antisemitism, and, then, you're able to take all that, and it doesn't stop you from keeping going, showing up, every day. We have no excuse, and I think that's inspiring. It drives us. We want to be that next generation of Jewish entrepreneurs that contributes to the world, and makes a difference.

Harley Finkelstein (00:57:04):
And has a positive impact.

David Segal (00:57:04):
And if we can have a positive impact.

Harley Finkelstein (00:57:06):
If we can have half the impact on the next vintage of Harley's and David's that, frankly, you, and some of your peers, have had on us? We think that that would be a really great thing-

Issy Sharp (00:57:15):
Oh, thank you.

Harley Finkelstein (00:57:16):
... And, frankly, there is no archival of these stories. You can find bits, and pieces of it, but there is no one place where you can go to find out about the stories of the world's greatest Jewish entrepreneurs in the last century, so sitting down with people like you, hopefully, creates this time capsule that we can share with many more generations that come after us, and, hopefully, they start the next Four Seasons, and the next Shopify, and the next David's Teas. That is to David's point, those are the bedtime stories that we grew up hearing about, and listening to, from our bobes and our zeydes, and that's why I say, this is, partially, a documentary, but it's, also, partially, just sitting in a Jewish deli, kibbutzing, and talking about what got us, here.

David Segal (00:58:04):
It's a little early for smoking, so we didn't.

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:07):
That's right, but we are so grateful that you spent time with us. You have a million other things you could be doing, now, and it is incredibly meaningful, to us, that you decided to spend a couple hours with us, today.

Issy Sharp (00:58:15):
So let me leave you with some good advice.

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:18):
Please.

David Segal (00:58:18):
Please.

Issy Sharp (00:58:19):
It will serve you well. I have played a lot of sports, my whole life. I went to school, not to learn, but to play games, and it was my life. So after college, et cetera, and I'm trying to, still, find what am I going to do, to give up team sports, I got to start staying in shape. So we built the first Fitness Institute. It was, that's what it was called, and the park. So I used to go in, after work, and work out. And the person we hired to run it was Lloyd Percival, who was Canada's foremost track, and field coach. And he put me through training programs, and I got into the best shape, in my life. I mean physically. Stronger, everything about it. And he explained to me, "Now, look, this is as good as you will ever get, but don't worry. It'll slowly go down. But if you keep it up, as much as you can, it'll take a long time before you can do much less." And he said, "Besides, if you keep physically fit, throughout your life, and mentally alert, because the brain is a muscle, if you don't use it'll atrophy, so keep the brain going as you, always, have, and I guarantee you, you'll never lose your sex life." He's right, to this day. What else do you have to tell a 35-year-old kid?

David Segal (00:59:48):
It's forgetting to work out. That's right.

Harley Finkelstein (00:59:50):
Stay in shape. Exercise your brain, your sex life will be okay?

Issy Sharp (00:59:52):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:59:53):
That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

David Segal (00:59:54):
Sounds good to me. I'm in.

Harley Finkelstein (00:59:55):
That's good.

David Segal (00:59:55):
Maybe, that's why you've been married longer, than pretty much every one of our guests. By the way, a lot of our guests have not been married this long. Many of them are on multiple spouses.

Issy Sharp (01:00:02):
Yeah, I know, but that's the point.

David Segal (01:00:03):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (01:00:04):
Sex is a strong part of people's lives.

Harley Finkelstein (01:00:07):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (01:00:08):
And the point, if you have a companion who believes in it, as you do, it goes on, indefinitely.

Harley Finkelstein (01:00:15):
Well, now, I know what the YouTube headline's going to be, here.

David Segal (01:00:16):
That might the best part.

Harley Finkelstein (01:00:21):
Issy, thank you so much.

David Segal (01:00:22):
Thanks so much.