How Business Legends Build The Best Teams

Harley Finkelstein (00:00):
One of the things that you and I believe in is the power of putting the right people around you.

David Segal (00:05):
Absolutely.

Harley Finkelstein (00:05):
And in fact, we had this conversation with Jonathan Wener where he talks about put the right people around you and let them profit. Right?

(00:12):
So, bring the right team around, make sure they have everything they need to be successful, and then, share with all of them. And one of the things that you and I have believed for our entire careers is the value of hiring amazing people, of partnering with one another who have very complementary skillsets.

(00:29):
But there is this [00:00:30] theme that comes across on every single one of the big shot interviews, where they talk about how they did a lot, but the people around them did even more. And they're all humble and modest enough to say, "I had the greatest team around me".

(00:43):
And when you think about it, these companies, whether it's the Expos or it's Four Seasons or it's Canderel or it's ALDO or RioCan, yes, we interviewed the founders, but the founders themselves believe that the people they put around them, their teams, was part of the magic [00:01:00] that made these companies what they were.

David Segal (01:02):
And-

Harley Finkelstein (01:02):
It wasn't just them.

David Segal (01:03):
It's also such a great source of pride for them. When you give people creative freedom and you let them spread their wings and fly around you, great things happen.

Harley Finkelstein (01:12):
And then, share with them.

David Segal (01:13):
And share with them, and you pay it forward and everybody benefits. That's one of actually the most beautiful things about building a business...

Harley Finkelstein (01:21):
Yeah.

David Segal (01:22):
... is the impact it has not just for your own self, your family, but all the other families around you that participate in you and the people and how they grow [00:01:30] and develop and profit as well.

Harley Finkelstein (01:31):
But isn't that the best part of entrepreneurship?

David Segal (01:33):
Absolutely.

Harley Finkelstein (01:33):
Entrepreneurship is, you start this thing, you start this train, and you get it going, and eventually, the train starts to move. And then, along the way, you pick up wonderful passengers and partners to add to this incredible mission. And then, eventually-

David Segal (01:47):
And watch them self-actualize.

Harley Finkelstein (01:48):
And watch them grow into their full potential.

David Segal (01:51):
Right.

Harley Finkelstein (01:52):
And then, you share with them.

(01:53):
So, we're going to do a big shot short talking about the value of team-building, and why bringing the right people on is so important, and then, sharing [00:02:00] with them is so important. So let's hear from a few of our big shots in terms of how they think about building a world-class team and making sure that team stays with them for a long time and keeps re-qualifying.

(02:10):
(music).

(02:24):
We're going to hear from Charles Bronfman, the famous philanthropist and entrepreneur, how he talks about the importance of chemistry [00:02:30] on a team.

(02:32):
One common theme here that we're talking about is that whether it's Leo or it's some of the folks around the Expos or even Birthright, your partner, or Michael, you tend to bet on people. I'm curious, the types of people you bet on.

(02:47):
I mean, you knew Leo when you were both at McGill University, you were first year, he was in law school. Michael, obviously, with Birthright, of course. But talk a bit about the types of partnerships that you've been through in your life, because whether it's Birthright, Cadillac [00:03:00] Fairview, Montreal Expos, major league baseball, philanthropy, there's something to the people you work with that are quite exceptional.

Charles Bronfman (03:08):
Well, in the first place, I am not a loner. I don't do well by myself. Now, even the sports, for instance, I was a reasonable tennis player, but only in doubles. In singles, there'd be people who I could wipe the floor with, who would beat me, because I was unsure of myself. But if I had a partner, I knew that partner, [00:03:30] I didn't have to depend only on myself. I had somebody to fall back off.

(03:35):
And that was true in business also and in philanthropy. I like to have people who have the skillsets I don't have, and I have the skillsets they don't have. That's a partnership, and it works. And I don't like change. I think once you have the chemistry with somebody, [00:04:00] he keeps that chemistry. For instance, John Mikhail was our president of the Expos.

(04:06):
Maybe he shouldn't have been all the time, but he was, because I didn't want change. Jeff Solomon, who is regarded as the number one CEO of philanthropy in the United States. He's been with me for 25 years. My assistant's been with me for over 20 years.

David Segal (04:29):
But yet, you're not afraid [00:04:30] to make the changes when the chemistry's not there, right? Gary Carter, who is the well-known hero of the Mets when he won the World Series, I mean, you traded him from the Expos, and I believe the line is chemistry.

Charles Bronfman (04:42):
It's the only trade I made.

David Segal (04:44):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (04:44):
But he was an amazing ball player, and he's such-

Charles Bronfman (04:48):
He was for the Mets.

Harley Finkelstein (04:51):
Not the Expos. The chemistry-

Charles Bronfman (04:51):
As I said, we can lose as well with Carter as without Carter.

Harley Finkelstein (04:55):
(Music) We're going to hear from Issy Sharp, the founder of the Four Seasons Hotel, [00:05:00] on how you have to hire the right people and give them the freedom to express themselves.

Issy Sharp (05:07):
So, there was a new hotel opened in Toronto. I think it might've been called the Westbury, and it was the new hotels. So, I went and spoke to the general manager of that hotel, and I said, "Look, I'm building something here. I'm not coming to you to see whether you'd like to join me, but do you know anybody I might speak to [00:05:30] in the hotel business to hire as a general manager?" And he said, "Yeah, I've got a friend who just came over from England, and he's running this little place and you might talk to him". So I did.

(05:43):
And when I went in, met this man whose name was Ian Monroe, and he was dressed in a very formal, almost like a morning suit, like he was going to a wedding or something. So, I talked to him, what I'm tending to do, "Would you think you'd like to maybe [00:06:00] run this hotel for us?" And he gave me his list of things he had done, and we had a nice charming conversation. So, I hired him.

(06:11):
I don't know how to interview people and how to hire people. I'm-

Harley Finkelstein (06:16):
You're a construction guy.

Issy Sharp (06:17):
Yeah, I'm a construction guy. 25 years old.

Harley Finkelstein (06:20):
You seemed like a nice guy.

Issy Sharp (06:21):
Yeah-

Harley Finkelstein (06:21):
Well-dressed.

Issy Sharp (06:22):
Exactly.

Harley Finkelstein (06:23):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (06:23):
He made some jokes and talked about what he did before. And I said, "Okay, but I have one condition. [00:06:30] I never want to see you wear that suit in the hotel". I'm thinking of a place-

Harley Finkelstein (06:35):
Not the vibe you were going for, eh?

Issy Sharp (06:36):
I'm thinking of a place that we welcome people feeling casual. So, we joined forces and became very good friends. And he taught me the hotel business.

David Segal (06:49):
Wow.

Issy Sharp (06:50):
He was gregarious. He knew food and beverage. He was charming and he understood... I said, "Ian, I want to make sure that [00:07:00] whoever comes in that door, they're a guest. I don't want to judge people by what they wear and who they are. If they're willing to walk in and want a room, hey, unless you know the guy is a criminal or something". So he understood. I said, "They're our guests and treat them as we are the host".

(07:23):
So, he understood me trying to articulate what Four Seasons has become.

David Segal (07:29):
Wow.

Issy Sharp (07:30):
[00:07:30] But he understood it, because he was that kind of person.

David Segal (07:33):
Right.

Issy Sharp (07:34):
Charming, able to... So, he hired the people with that basic principle of we treat everybody with respect, welcome them. And that became the beginning.

Harley Finkelstein (07:49):
So that DNA of... Ian is his name? His name?

Issy Sharp (07:51):
Ian Monroe.

Harley Finkelstein (07:52):
Ian Monroe. So, is it safe to say that the Ian Monroe sort of DNA, that Ian Monroe thoughtfulness about hospitality, [00:08:00] food and beverage, welcoming people in an incredibly kind way, is that the blueprint for effectively hospitality?

David Segal (08:09):
Or the golden rule.

Harley Finkelstein (08:10):
Is that the blueprint for the golden rule?

Issy Sharp (08:12):
That's not what cause, or became the golden rule, but just the principle of treating people as you would if you're having a guest to your home.

David Segal (08:21):
Right.

Issy Sharp (08:22):
You welcome them, you want to make sure they're having a good evening. So, his expertise was food. [00:08:30] He really was foodie, big staunch. He looked like him. He liked food.

David Segal (08:35):
He liked to eat. Yeah.

Issy Sharp (08:39):
So, that was the beginning, without being able to articulate what we wanted to become. Because remember, I was not thinking of going into the hotel business.

David Segal (08:50):
Right.

Harley Finkelstein (08:50):
This is real estate.

Issy Sharp (08:51):
It was still a real estate deal.

Harley Finkelstein (08:52):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (08:52):
I would sell it. Luckily and fortunately, it became very successful out of the gate. [00:09:00] So, I could pay back all the people I had promised. And again, it's not... If it doesn't work, we're...

David Segal (09:10):
You got-

Issy Sharp (09:10):
... throwing the keys. It was a phenomenal success, because of Peter Dickinson's architecture.

David Segal (09:17):
The design was so magnificent.

Issy Sharp (09:19):
It was dramatic. I mean, you could not want to go in. If you drove by, you say we got to go look-

Harley Finkelstein (09:26):
We got to see what that is.

Issy Sharp (09:27):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (09:27):
And there's nothing else like it anywhere, [00:09:30] right?

Issy Sharp (09:31):
It was... When I look at it now like the photograph of it, I say how in the world did I do that? You know? But then, you tell an architect you need something that's going to bring people to you...

Harley Finkelstein (09:45):
Right. It's like a magnet. Yeah.

Issy Sharp (09:47):
Well, you guys have done the same. If you think... If you hire the right talent and you give them the freedom to express what their talent is all about, they do things out of the box.

Harley Finkelstein (10:00):
[00:10:00] Yeah.

Issy Sharp (10:00):
So Peter Dickinson's design was a magnet, and Ian Monroe in managing as a host did spectacular things in terms of the guest experience.

Harley Finkelstein (10:16):
When did customer service and when did that feeling of hospitality become such a cornerstone of the Four Seasons brand?

Issy Sharp (10:26):
That took time [00:10:30] to... Not to envision, but to create. Because, as I say, we started with this hospitality host concept, and that's really what differentiated us in England and what I knew made us a success. Because in England at that time, if you went into the Dorchester, the Knott, Claridge's, if you weren't dressed properly, you couldn't even come into the hotel.

Harley Finkelstein (10:59):
Yeah. Black t-shirt [00:11:00] wouldn't work there.

Issy Sharp (11:00):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (11:01):
That's right.

Issy Sharp (11:02):
And they looked down upon you.

Harley Finkelstein (11:04):
Ah, interesting.

Issy Sharp (11:04):
You were checking the front desk, they would look up and say, "Yes, we might have a room for that," attitude was very much social class. There was... Europe At that time, there was a social class.

David Segal (11:20):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (11:22):
So, our hotel was very different. London, we hired the people and told them, "This is not how we judge [00:11:30] others. We're not the Dorchester, we're not Claridge's. We are the inn on the park".

(11:37):
So London was the repeat of the other hotels. Ian Monroe, again, he wasn't going to run London because he was already running the other two hotels, but he hired people and explained, "Look, this is how we operate. We're not judging people and we treat everybody [00:12:00] the same". It's not whether he's an important person or a worker. Everybody who is coming into the hotel or who works in the hotel. There's an egalitarian of equal approach to attitude about people.

(12:17):
So, London became the best hotel, and I knew why. Because we didn't build a grand hotel. I mean, when you went into these other hotels, they-

David Segal (12:27):
They have connoisseurs.

Issy Sharp (12:27):
They were palaces.

David Segal (12:28):
Sure.

Issy Sharp (12:29):
Right?

David Segal (12:29):
Yeah.

Issy Sharp (12:29):
So, we [00:12:30] were in a modern building, nothing impressive compared to them, but our people, the service changed how people were treated in London.

Harley Finkelstein (12:42):
But you also took care of your own people. One thing that really stuck out for me is that Four Seasons' employees are allowed to stay for free at the hotels, which is quite unique.

David Segal (12:52):
That's totally... When we did our research on this...

Harley Finkelstein (12:54):
Yeah. Right.

David Segal (12:54):
... no other hotel does that.

Issy Sharp (12:56):
But those things happened over time of how you create [00:13:00] the... How do you get people to respond to what you're talking about, what you're talking about, the service aspect. That happened over many years. But London made it clear to me that service and attitude was the key for Four Seasons.

Harley Finkelstein (13:24):
We'll hear from Aldo Bensadoun, the founder of ALDO Shoes. One of the things he talks about is how he taught every single person that work in his company [00:13:30] the value of love, respect, integrity.

Aldo Bensadoun (13:35):
So, when I hired my first employee, I would say, "Listen, Robert..." There was Robert, there was Serge, there was... And I would say to them, "I don't want you to lie to me. If one day, you don't want to work or you're sick or you want to help your wife...

David Segal (13:54):
Just tell me.

Aldo Bensadoun (13:54):
... just tell me about it and let's work, let's do well. [00:14:00] And basically, explain to them our value of love, respect, and integrity.

David Segal (14:07):
But at the same time, you also were very ambitious. You wanted to have a company that did good, that was socially responsible, that was thoughtful, that had love, but you were also incredibly ambitious. I mean, the vertical integration, being able to basically design your own shoes, manufacture your own shoes, and then, get it right to the hands of the end consumer-

Harley Finkelstein (14:24):
And control the brand.

David Segal (14:25):
And control the entire brand, that was a very novel thing to do. I mean, very few companies did that.

(14:29):
So, [00:14:30] the juxtaposition is, on one side, you're so ambitious, but on the other side, you want to build a different type of company.

Aldo Bensadoun (14:36):
Exactly.

Harley Finkelstein (14:37):
That's more humane.

Aldo Bensadoun (14:37):
Exactly.

David Segal (14:38):
And what I love about that is, there's an integrity piece of it. I mean, you were angry at your former employer, and so, that gave you... It sounds like it gave you energy to make sure you could do it better.

Aldo Bensadoun (14:46):
Exactly. It's all the energy that I had, because I wanted to prove to them that I could do it. Plus, I wanted to make sure that we could help [00:15:00] everybody, and that everybody that would be with us would reach their full potential.

(15:06):
In other words, my goal was, yes, I want to make money, but at the same time, I want to help society. I want to help the community, and I want to make sure that, in the world, as I'm growing those value of love, respect, and integrity, I carry in many different countries.

(15:28):
In our office right from the beginning, [00:15:30] because of the type of company that I wanted to create was that love, respect, integrity, there was a lot of diversity, there was a lot of people from all kind of different country that would come, different colors, different country, different religion, and those people, some of them came from United States, some from China, some from Mexico, some from wherever it is, Europe. And that diversity [00:16:00] helped me and our management team understand that, if those people that are creating our shoes and building and designing our shoes and working with our footwear, why can't they do the same thing in their own country?

(16:18):
They were visiting them. So, to me, I think that, yes, there is diversity in the world, but there is a common [00:16:30] thread of that certain thing, you know, are good. Like a winner in New York is a winner in Montreal, it's a winner in Tel Aviv.

Harley Finkelstein (16:43):
Right. (music)

(16:43):
We'll hear from Jonathan Wener, the founder of Canderel, one of Canada's biggest development companies, on how one of the keys to his success is how he put the right people around him and he shared with them.

Jonathan Wener (16:56):
I see it in my speech at graduation, [00:17:00] first and foremost, be passionate about what you're doing. Don't worry so much about the money. The money will follow if you're really truly passionate about it. And if it doesn't, you'll find something else. But be really passionate about what you're doing, so that it's not going to work, it's going to play.

(17:20):
My kids said, "Dad, at 60, when are you going to retire?" I said, "I did 20 years ago". They said, "What are you talking about? You still work like a dog." I said, "I played like a dog." [00:17:30] Because, for me, every day, it was a joy, and still, is a joy. Even though I'm removed from CEO, I'm now COO. You know what COO is? Chief Opinion Officer.

Harley Finkelstein (17:41):
I'm sure your CEO loves that.

Jonathan Wener (17:43):
But I love the business, and so, because... And I love business, not just my real estate business. I love business and many different things that we've done. And I love watching other people's success and making them successful, if I can.

(17:58):
So, first, passion. [00:18:00] Second, put the right people around you, and share with them. Let them become wealthy with you. I build my company giving 20%, not of the company, but 20% of the action in the buildings and the real estate deals, deal by deal, 10% to head office and 10% to the field office.

(18:25):
So, each city was a field office, 10% went to that city [00:18:30] and 10% went to the head office guys who supported them. And so, different than the Risman formula, I lent the employees the money to be able to invest because it was way beyond anybody's...

Harley Finkelstein (18:46):
And tell them to invest otherwise would be impossible.

Jonathan Wener (18:48):
Right.

Harley Finkelstein (18:49):
So it'd be moot.

Jonathan Wener (18:50):
Now, there are a few guys, two or three that have done so exceptionally well that they write their own checks today because there's an 8% premium on the money that [00:19:00] I'm putting in when they can borrow with 2% or 3%. I don't want them to take my money. I'm availing them of that. Since I removed myself as CEO, I moved that to 35%.

David Segal (19:13):
35%...

Jonathan Wener (19:14):
Instead of 20%.

David Segal (19:15):
... of the deal goes to...

Jonathan Wener (19:16):
The employees.

David Segal (19:17):
Wow.

Jonathan Wener (19:18):
And so, my second comment to you in terms of the advice for your time capsule, is I have people who've been with me 40 years. I have people with me 35 years. I have [00:19:30] people with me, 34. I have young people who would normally be gone in a year or two who are there 10 and 15 years. The office is a place where you create a culture, and if everybody at home, I think it's exceptionally hard.

(19:47):
You can operate a company...

Harley Finkelstein (19:49):
You can't build a...

Jonathan Wener (19:49):
... but I don't think you can build a culture.

(19:52):
You build a culture by walking down the hall, putting your arm around somebody, saying, great job, or How can I help you get this across the finish [00:20:00] line? You do that on a Zoom call or a phone call.

Harley Finkelstein (20:03):
Actually, I agree with you on that.

Jonathan Wener (20:05):
Okay. And I don't know how you value it, but I think the pendulum is swinging. It swung all the way to the left in terms of the usefulness of office. I think those people who are buying office assets today are going to look brilliant five years from now when the pendulum swings back to the middle.

(20:25):
So, invest in your employees, invest in the organization, [00:20:30] and make them... Create a family. I can tell you, I invited all my employees up to my country home every year for an extravagant dinner and a wild day in the country. We did crazy things, dragon boating, sand sculptures, all kinds of stuff that was team building-oriented. My wife used to say, "God, when are you going to stop this?" I said, "I'm never going to stop it because it's part of the employee's understanding [00:21:00] that I care".

(21:02):
So, invest in your employees in every way that you reasonably can to build your business.

David Segal (21:09):
Great advice.

Jonathan Wener (21:09):
And the next piece is give it back. Pay it forward.

(21:14):
There are so many ways to do it. Get your employees to get involved. The Défi, the strength of the Défi is it's ours. It's not we're working for the Children's Hospital or the Jewish General Hospital or [inaudible 00:21:28] or [00:21:30] Jewish community, this or that, this belongs to us.