From No-Name Producer To The Queen of Broadway: Fran Weissler

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:00):
You ever feel like you're too late for something that the train has already left the station and you're not on that train?

David Segal (00:00:06):
Totally. You and I have accomplished a lot, and we still feel like that every single day at 40.

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:09):
And so many people feel like it's too late for me, or I don't have the capabilities, or I don't have the experience, or don't have the money to do so. And then you meet someone like our next guest, Fran Weissler, who is the queen of Broadway, but started in her 50s. In her 50s. And the previous 16 years, using a station wagon at a U-Haul, she was touring America [00:00:30] and doing plays at high schools. And then she turns 50 and somehow convinces James Earl Jones to star in Othello, ends up winning a Tony for it and goes on to make-

David Segal (00:00:41):
She has no money.

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:42):
No money, no experience.

David Segal (00:00:43):
No experience.

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:44):
She has no business doing this, doesn't venue you to do it. She convinces James Earl Jones to star in one of her plays, her first Broadway play, and she then creates this career starting at 50 for the next 45 years. She's 95 now and becomes the queen of Broadway. She now has seven [00:01:00] Tonys, has produced over 20 Broadway shows, and she's still going. And she's a shiny example that it's never too late if you're ambitious and you're thoughtful and you're hardworking, and you put it all on the line, that you can be a big shot at any age.

David Segal (00:01:13):
And she's able to find some of the biggest names in movies and in TV and get them, like Kathleen Turner, and get them to come into Broadway. And the story she tells about how she does this, such chutzpah, she really didn't have much of a reputation. She had no reputation. And [00:01:30] she somehow step by step by step, creates these incredible plays. And then that story about how once she's incredibly successful, she takes it all and puts it all on the line.

Harley Finkelstein (00:01:42):
Which she doesn't to do.

David Segal (00:01:42):
All of her chips in the middle. She decides basically to put it all in the line. Again, for that one play.

Harley Finkelstein (00:01:45):
Also, her journey about encountering sexism and chauvinism and having to deal with financial companies who don't want to back her, and artists and their drama. She tells these stories about all these crazy celebrities who she brings in who have all these crazy writers and these crazy restrictions [00:02:00] and needs. But she finds a way to build this incredible company, and she will go down as being one of the most iconic-

David Segal (00:02:05):
One of the greatest.

Harley Finkelstein (00:02:06):
... legendary people in theater in the whole world.

David Segal (00:02:09):
She has so much grace. She persevered. She's elegant. Her stories are fabulous. You're going to love Fran Weissler.

Harley Finkelstein (00:02:15):
Ladies and gentlemen, Fran [00:02:30] Weissler. First of all, Fran, we are so honored you're here, but let me just read something to you and ask a question. You've produced 19 plays on Broadway. You've won seven Tonys. People call you the queen of Broadway. But I want to go way back to your childhood, and I'm curious what it was like growing up in your household, your parents, the dinner table, Shabbat dinners. What was that like?

Fran Weissler (00:02:57):
I think we produced 34 Broadway shows.

Harley Finkelstein (00:02:59):
Excuse me. [00:03:00] I'm off by half.

Fran Weissler (00:03:02):
But I think just so you know-

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:04):
Subtle flex. Subtle flex.

Fran Weissler (00:03:06):
But then you can count it.

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:07):
Oh, I liked it all.

Fran Weissler (00:03:09):
Growing up, I was born in Utica, New York, and then we moved to Syracuse, New York, and my father was in the shoe business, so my mother was a housewife. I was never, unfortunately close to my mother. She was a tough lady and I didn't relate to her as [00:03:30] well as I wish I had, but I was very, very close to my father.

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:34):
Did your mother ever see your success? Was she around for that?

Fran Weissler (00:03:38):
She didn't, but my greatest regret is that he didn't. He saw the very beginning when we produced Babes in Toyland, which was like our first... We weren't on Broadway. We were in the theater off Broadway, a large theater, which of course, I can't remember, but he never, ever [00:04:00] saw... And sometimes I think of that and it still saddens me and makes me crazy because he would've so loved it, so loved it.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:10):
Was there art in your house? Was that type of theater or that type of art, music part of your childhood?

Fran Weissler (00:04:16):
Nothing.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:16):
Nothing?

Fran Weissler (00:04:17):
Nothing. Truly, no. It was all very pleasant and we went to the movies and we bought clothes, and I was always a foodie, and I continue to be. [00:04:30] Next to theater, my love is food.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:33):
Was that part of your upbringing, good food in the house?

Fran Weissler (00:04:36):
No, I don't think... My mother was a good cook, so maybe that was part of it with my really understanding that. But anyway, I grew up and we were not rich. We were not poor. Very middle class.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:53):
Was there a lot of Jews in your community growing up?

Fran Weissler (00:04:55):
Probably, but I was not aware of it. [00:05:00] I was aware of it, but not aware of it, if you understand. Anyway, I lived with them, and then I went to New York University where I studied dramatic art and majored in English and minored in dramatic art. And so I speak reasonably well, and I always loved theater, but never thought I would be involved in it. I just loved it and I loved going.

Harley Finkelstein (00:05:29):
Do you remember the [00:05:30] first play, the first piece of theater you saw?

Fran Weissler (00:05:33):
I think it was called Claudia, which I can't remember enough about it, honey, but it was about a woman in her life and sort of a drama, comedy.

David Segal (00:05:47):
Where did you see it?

Fran Weissler (00:05:49):
I saw it on Broadway.

Harley Finkelstein (00:05:50):
On Broadway?

Fran Weissler (00:05:50):
And I don't know how I did or-

David Segal (00:05:52):
Who brought you.

Harley Finkelstein (00:05:53):
But it hit you.

Fran Weissler (00:05:54):
And I was in Boston and why was I at the theater? I wish I could be better at this, but [00:06:00] it is what it is. And then I married a man from Boston, and he was six, two and blue-eyed, and when he walked into a room, everybody turned and looked at him. He was that attractive. And I kind of fell asleep while he was talking.

Harley Finkelstein (00:06:24):
He was boring?

Fran Weissler (00:06:25):
He was boring.

David Segal (00:06:26):
Good-looking, but boring?

Fran Weissler (00:06:27):
Yeah, good-looking. A lot of guys use their [00:06:30] looks and underneath you keep scraping and scraping. There's not too much.

David Segal (00:06:33):
Steven and I have to have big personalities because we don't have the looks.

Fran Weissler (00:06:39):
You're okay. You're okay. You made it.

David Segal (00:06:39):
We tried.

Fran Weissler (00:06:40):
But he was a lovely, lovely man and loved me and was very good to me. And I had two children with him. And leaving him was very, very hard because as I said, he loved me and was in love with me. I loved him, [00:07:00] but was not in love with him. And I had two children, so I had to make a huge decision and I had no real money. I wasn't poor, but I had no money, so it was what do I do with the rest of my life? But I knew that to be in a marriage that was sort of like this-

Harley Finkelstein (00:07:23):
Mediocre?

Fran Weissler (00:07:25):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:07:25):
You don't strike me as someone that does anything halfway.

Fran Weissler (00:07:27):
No, you're very wise. [00:07:30] I wish I did. Although I'm very calm. I'm extremely calm.

David Segal (00:07:36):
How did you know?

Fran Weissler (00:07:38):
About him?

David Segal (00:07:39):
Well, you had a fairly comfortable life, I'm sure. Was it a lack of inspiration? How did you know that this major decision in your life was the right one?

Fran Weissler (00:07:46):
I think no matter how great the sex or how great the attraction of which there was certainly one, ultimately, it's about being intellectually on the same level. It's really, [00:08:00] really important that you can talk to each other and that you respect what each other says. And if something happens and you can't wait to tell him or her, or him and him, whoever it happens to be, and say, I have to tell you this. I can't wait. I never wanted to say that to him. Not that he was stupid or anything, but he just wasn't endlessly interesting. Leaving him with two children was hard, [00:08:30] really hard but I made a decision that I didn't want the rest of my life to be like this.

David Segal (00:08:37):
It's a lot.

Fran Weissler (00:08:38):
It shouldn't be too much like this, but it's better than being like this, so I did leave and it was very, very hard to do that to my children and to him.

Harley Finkelstein (00:08:53):
Around 1970, you formed the National Artist Management Company.

Fran Weissler (00:08:58):
That was the one with Barry.

Harley Finkelstein (00:08:59):
How did that [00:09:00] all happen? How'd you meet Barry? Had you formed that company? What was that all about?

Fran Weissler (00:09:03):
A friend of mine wanted me... I lived in New Jersey by then. I didn't live in New York, and there was a theater called Theater on the Green, and a friend of mine was the box office person, and she called me. It was a Sunday, and she said, "I'm really sick. I have the flu. Can you please take over?" I said, "No, I can't add and subtract. [00:09:30] I love you, but I can't give change." Today you don't have to worry. They have-

David Segal (00:09:34):
It's all computerized.

Fran Weissler (00:09:35):
But then, and I practically flunk math. I was great at English, but I couldn't add or subtract. I could never multiply. She said, "What are you talking about?" I said, "I'm telling you I can't give change. It'll be really hard." She said, "Okay." She calls me back an hour later and says, "Fran, I called everyone. It's a Sunday afternoon. Everyone's busy but you."

Harley Finkelstein (00:09:57):
She must have been a good friend.

Fran Weissler (00:09:59):
It was [00:10:00] good enough.

David Segal (00:10:00):
Or very persuasive.

Fran Weissler (00:10:02):
She said, you've got to do it. If she had found someone, I wouldn't have met Barry.

David Segal (00:10:07):
Wow.

Fran Weissler (00:10:08):
I know.

David Segal (00:10:08):
It's serendipitous.

Fran Weissler (00:10:10):
I know.

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:10):
You agreed to be the box office lady on Theater on the Green. Yeah. At this point, you like theater, but you're not thinking of being in the theater business now, right?

Fran Weissler (00:10:19):
Oh, no.

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:19):
It's far from it.

Fran Weissler (00:10:20):
Oh, no. I didn't even connect that. Now I go and the show that they had at Theater at the Green, Barry [00:10:30] was in as an actor, which he was awful. And then he was the director and he was the producer, so everything he was doing. And at the-

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:39):
It was his production?

Fran Weissler (00:10:40):
It was his production and totally mediocre.

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:47):
I'm sure you remind him of that all the time.

Fran Weissler (00:10:50):
When I go home later-

Harley Finkelstein (00:10:51):
You'll tell him that.

Fran Weissler (00:10:54):
Now he's there and he's doing all this stuff, and I met [00:11:00] him and there was no attraction at the beginning. When I met him, I was 35. He was 26, and he continues to be 11 years younger than me.

Harley Finkelstein (00:11:14):
Still to this day, no new-

Fran Weissler (00:11:15):
And it works. It works. It's the best thing, smartest thing I ever did. He was there and we met, and there wasn't any attraction. There was just a mutuality of interests. And [00:11:30] he said, "I'm working and I want to form a company. I want to do things, and I think I need some help. And would you..." Well, by that time I was getting divorced and I had nothing to do. And it was like, this might be like a, what do you call it, a lifeboat, a life raft. And I said, "Yeah, maybe I will do that." And that's how it began. [00:12:00] We were going to form this company, the National Artist Management Company.

Harley Finkelstein (00:12:05):
Why'd you call it that? What was it?

Fran Weissler (00:12:07):
I don't have know... It's so desperately dull, isn't it? I know.

Harley Finkelstein (00:12:11):
It sounds actually like, now it seems very prestigious.

Fran Weissler (00:12:14):
It does.

Harley Finkelstein (00:12:14):
National Artist Management Company.

David Segal (00:12:16):
But you know what struck me before even you founded that was that both you and Barry, I believe, were in retail at a certain point in your life, right?

Fran Weissler (00:12:26):
Yeah. Yes, his father owned a retail store.

David Segal (00:12:30):
[00:12:30] You did not work in retail?

Fran Weissler (00:12:32):
My father was in the shoe business, which is retail, but I never worked in retail.

David Segal (00:12:37):
But retail in many ways... I've worked in retail my whole life, so as Harley, and in many ways it's theater. Was there anything you picked up from your dad around selling around his business of how he went about putting on a display around shoes to get people to buy them? Did that connect dots for you at all?

Fran Weissler (00:12:58):
Not for one second.

David Segal (00:12:59):
Not for one second?

Fran Weissler (00:12:59):
It never [00:13:00] entered my mind, but I adored him. And he had leased departments, shoe departments, and department stores. He didn't own a shoe store.

Harley Finkelstein (00:13:13):
He had a space, a store within a store.

Fran Weissler (00:13:15):
Yeah, in Lord & Taylor, there's a shoe department, or in Saks, there's a shoe department. He leased those. That's what he did. And he made a good living, not great, and not bad, but a medium. We lived a [00:13:30] very nice life.

Harley Finkelstein (00:13:32):
Did your father-

Fran Weissler (00:13:32):
Not rich, but not poor.

David Segal (00:13:35):
You meet Barry and the National Arts, was it a national.

Harley Finkelstein (00:13:40):
National Arts Management Company?

Fran Weissler (00:13:43):
Very good, very good.

David Segal (00:13:43):
I believe you go to your dad and you're like, "I really like this guy. He's got no money. He has no idea what he's doing."

Fran Weissler (00:13:49):
And I have no idea what I'm doing. And I had two kids.

Harley Finkelstein (00:13:53):
From a previous marriage.

Fran Weissler (00:13:54):
From a previous marriage.

Harley Finkelstein (00:13:56):
But your father, to his credit, I believe said, "Go with your heart."

Fran Weissler (00:13:59):
He did.

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:00):
[00:14:00] And that's a wonderful thing.

Fran Weissler (00:14:01):
He did. He did. I said, "What should I do? I think I like this guy. I am not in love with him, but I think I like him and I like what he does, and it's kind of interesting to me." And he said to me, exactly that, "Go with your heart. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. You're young, you'll start all over again. But you got to try things. You have to take a shot." And so I did. And we weren't romantic [00:14:30] for, not a long time, six months maybe, not six years, when we fell in love with each other. But before that, it was strictly business.

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:41):
You were business partners first?

Fran Weissler (00:14:42):
Yes.

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:43):
When you met, it was like, he wants to do this thing, you're going to join for the ride. But it was all about the business, not about the love?

Fran Weissler (00:14:50):
Yeah. We met and he wanted to produce shows on Broadway. As I said, we had no money, and much worse, we didn't know anything. [00:15:00] We didn't even know-

Harley Finkelstein (00:15:02):
What you didn't know.

Fran Weissler (00:15:02):
... what we didn't know.

Harley Finkelstein (00:15:03):
Yes. But what ambition though to say we want to produce shows on Broadway.

Fran Weissler (00:15:06):
But we knew.

David Segal (00:15:07):
You had a dream.

Fran Weissler (00:15:08):
We said, so what should we do? How do we make a living? And I remember that a group of players came to my school and I said, "Barry, we can't go to Broadway, but we can play schools, like high schools. We can produce theater." We found out that in America, you can't charge students during school hours.

Harley Finkelstein (00:15:29):
You're not allowed.

Fran Weissler (00:15:29):
This [00:15:30] is a democracy. Education is free. Now I'm out of my mind, and I call my best friend who happened to be Catholic, and I said, "I think I'm in love with this guy, and I have two kids from a previous marriage, and I think we're going to starve, and I don't know what to do, and I don't know what to do with the rest of my life." She said, "Stop talking. You can play the Catholic schools. They're a private institution."

Harley Finkelstein (00:15:51):
You can charge them.

Fran Weissler (00:15:52):
And they'll charge during school hours, and especially if you do what's required reading. And I said, "Oh, my God. [00:16:00] That would be fantastic."

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:03):
Praise Jesus.

Fran Weissler (00:16:04):
For the next 16 years, not two, 16 years, we played the Catholic schools and we did Shakespeare, Sophocles, George Bernard Shaw, whatever was required reading. We had symposiums at the termination of the show whereby the actors could relate to the students. Six months in advance, we sent study guides. We were really business [00:16:30] oriented, thank God. And so they had study guides so that they knew what we were going to do when we got there. And we had a station wagon attached to, it was a U-Haul. The U-Haul had the sets costume props. The actors were in the station wagon, and we went from school to school to school, 16 years.

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:55):
Wow. Talk about-

Fran Weissler (00:16:55):
16, pay your dues.

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:58):
You paid your dues, but also it's a grind. [00:17:00] High schools are not exactly glamorous. The places they're in are not glamorous. You're not in Los Angeles or New York City. You're in small town America. What did that teach you about the theater business?

Fran Weissler (00:17:11):
I don't know how much it taught us. It was like... I can't explain it. It was a job, and we liked it. We really liked it. We didn't love it, but we were still producing theater, which we love to do, and we were casting it, and we were having [00:17:30] auditions. We were doing all that, but we had our eye way up here. And for 16, it's a long time.

Harley Finkelstein (00:17:35):
16 years is a long time.

Fran Weissler (00:17:37):
It isn't like five or six, but we did that.

Harley Finkelstein (00:17:41):
Because now you're probably 50 years old and you're still doing it at this point.

Fran Weissler (00:17:44):
I think I started really going into the real business when I was like 50.

David Segal (00:17:50):
Wow.

Fran Weissler (00:17:51):
What did I say? I'm 95 now, so I must've been 50.

David Segal (00:17:55):
Wow.

Fran Weissler (00:17:57):
Oh, God.

David Segal (00:17:57):
What a life.

Fran Weissler (00:17:57):
I know. What a life.

David Segal (00:17:57):
How do you-

Fran Weissler (00:17:59):
And we loved each other.

David Segal (00:18:00):
[00:18:00] And you loved each other.

Fran Weissler (00:18:00):
Oh, God. Thank God.

Harley Finkelstein (00:18:03):
Well, spending that many years on the road you're not really in love with, it might be challenging. How was it in terms of your children? That must have been difficult because you're away from them, I suspect.

Fran Weissler (00:18:13):
No, I was very careful to be home every night for dinner, every night, and made sure that the four of us ate together. It was really important to me. As I said, I'm a foodie, so it wasn't only the food, it was the camaraderie. It was knowing there was a family. It was really important [00:18:30] to me, and especially since I was divorced, I felt I owed my children that.

David Segal (00:18:36):
You would drive back, you'd be driving all around, but day trips so that you could get back for dinner with your kids?

Fran Weissler (00:18:41):
Yes. Yes. We really did. Maybe once in a while we couldn't, but basically we did that. You can't, in my opinion, fail or afford to when your children are home. Now they're fine, so we can afford to take a shot. We [00:19:00] took a shot and we produced our first Broadway show, which of course was Shakespeare. That's all the hell we knew.

David Segal (00:19:07):
Sure.

Fran Weissler (00:19:08):
And it was Othello.

David Segal (00:19:09):
Because that was what you were putting on for the Catholic schools.

Fran Weissler (00:19:13):
We did Othello during part of that 16 years, but we knew Othello was the most accessible of Shakespeare's shows. It's very understandable. And so we produced Othello.

Harley Finkelstein (00:19:26):
And how do you do that? How do you take a show, you've been producing Othello [00:19:30] for the Catholic schools, you and Barry decide, let's go to Broadway. How does that happen? How do you go to Broadway?

Fran Weissler (00:19:36):
Well, the way we could go to Broadway is we had two actors that sold tickets. We couldn't just do Othello. We had to do Othello with someone playing Othello and someone playing Iago opposite him. Othello was James Earl Jones. Iago was Chris Plummer.

Harley Finkelstein (00:19:55):
Wow.

David Segal (00:19:56):
How do you get them though? At this point you guys-

Fran Weissler (00:19:59):
And we didn't know [00:20:00] anything, and we didn't know anybody. We had Jimmy because-

Harley Finkelstein (00:20:05):
James Earl Jones?

Fran Weissler (00:20:06):
James Earl Jones.

Harley Finkelstein (00:20:07):
With that voice, that incredible voice.

Fran Weissler (00:20:09):
Oh, God.

Harley Finkelstein (00:20:09):
Unbelievable.

Fran Weissler (00:20:10):
I had never met him. I knew his manager, agent, whose name was Lucy Kroll, and I loved her. And for some reason, she latched onto me also, even though I was nobody. She was very kind to me. And Jimmy was doing [00:20:30] a show, and I can't remember the details, I apologize, but something happened to the show. It was a one-man show, whereby the person that was directing it said that he didn't believe in the show they were doing, and they were going to strike. All his friends were going to strike the show that Jimmy was performing, this one man show. And she called [00:21:00] me and said, "James Earl Jones is not going to perform where they're striking in front of the theater. He can't handle it. He can't do it, and he can't handle it."

Harley Finkelstein (00:21:08):
Not good for his-

Fran Weissler (00:21:09):
Chris could handle it, but Jimmy couldn't. She said, "I just want you to know he's available because the show isn't happening."

David Segal (00:21:17):
But he's a well-known.

Fran Weissler (00:21:18):
Oh, he's James Earl Jones.

David Segal (00:21:18):
He's James Earl Jones, even then he was a-

Harley Finkelstein (00:21:21):
And at this point-

David Segal (00:21:22):
... big deal.

Harley Finkelstein (00:21:23):
... you've never produced a play on Broadway?

Fran Weissler (00:21:24):
Never.

Harley Finkelstein (00:21:25):
It's like going from about the minor leagues all the way to the All [00:21:30] Star game.

Fran Weissler (00:21:31):
But all I knew is that he was available. I didn't know what to do with him And Barry, we just thought, James Earl Jones, James Earl Jones.

Harley Finkelstein (00:21:38):
What do we do?

Fran Weissler (00:21:40):
What do we do? What do we do? And then this friend of ours had two tickets to the Stratford Festival in Stratford, Connecticut to see a show that featured Christopher Plummer, and they were free, and we had no money, so anything free we went. He said, "Somebody's sick, [00:22:00] would you like the tickets?" We said, "Yes, yes." We go and we see the first act. I don't remember the name of the show, honey, but whatever it was, it was Shakespeare. And we'd look at each other at intermission and say, we've got James Earl Jones, and look how great Christopher Plummer is. Maybe we could do Othello-

Harley Finkelstein (00:22:20):
With the two of them.

Fran Weissler (00:22:21):
... with James Earl Jones, who we have, and maybe we can get Chris. And he says, "Oh, my God. Maybe, maybe, maybe we can do that." [00:22:30] We wait till the curtain comes down, we run to the dressing room, and Barry says, "I don't think we both should go in to meet Chris." Chris Plummer was like... I never even met James Earl Jones, even though we had him. I never met him. He said, "I don't think we both should go in. I think it would be overwhelming." I said, "Okay." He said, "And I don't think a man should go in. I think you should go in and talk to Chris Plummer." I said, "Oh, my God. How can I do it? What am I going to..." He said, "Honey, [00:23:00] the worst that happens is we don't get him."

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:03):
He says, no.

Fran Weissler (00:23:04):
Other than committing suicide, we will be fine. I said, "Okay." The curtain comes down, I run, I knock on the door, and the door opens and the dresser answers. The dresser thinks they're the actor. She says, "Yes." And I said, "My name is Fran Weissler. I'd like to see Christopher Plummer, if you don't mind." She said, "Are you stupid?" She had no idea who I was. I was nobody but she didn't know. [00:23:30] She said, "The curtain just came down. He's in full makeup. He's in full costume. You came the minute the curtain came down, he can't see you now." I said, "I'm so sorry. I didn't understand that." I'll wait. She said, "Please wait." She slammed the door. Now I wait, and I'm sitting there with Barry, even though I'm going in alone, and everybody comes out, the production stage manager, the stage manager, the carpenters, the electricians, the lighting designers, the actors, 30 [00:24:00] minutes. And we're sitting there thinking, for 16 years, we produced theater in schools, Catholic schools. We're Jews in Catholic schools.

(00:24:11):
And we said, we have a shot on Broadway, and we're sitting here and our heart... It was like our whole future was in that stupid meeting. Now the door opens and she says, "You can see him now." And I'm thinking, "Please, God, let her leave the room." She leaves. [00:24:30] He's sitting there.

Harley Finkelstein (00:24:32):
It's just you and Chris?

Fran Weissler (00:24:33):
Christopher only, what's the smoking jacket? The cravat, the black velvet shoes with the gold crest, the legs across.

David Segal (00:24:43):
Right out of the movie.

Fran Weissler (00:24:44):
It's Christopher. He's stunning. And he's smart. I thought, I'm going to have a heart attack, but I'll do it. He said, "Yes." And I said, "My name is Fran Weissler and I have James Earl Jones, and we also secured the Winter Garden Theater [00:25:00] because of your name and James Earl Jones's name. If you would consider starring in Othello opposite Mr. Jones, we would like to produce it. And I would be very excited if you could do..." I don't know what I just talked, and there's a long pause and he says, "What did you say your name was again?" [00:25:30] And I said, "Fran Weissler." He said, "Mrs. Weissler, a producer, a professional producer doesn't barge into an actor's dressing room and asks the actor to do a show. Do you understand?" I said, "Yes." He said, "A professional producer calls the actor's agent or manager and talks to them about securing the actor. Do you understand?"

(00:26:00):
[00:26:00] I said, "I understand." He said, my agent is Lou Pitt, P-I-T-T. He works at ICM, international Creative Management. It's in Los Angeles and there's a three hour..." I said, "I know that part. I know there's a three-hour time difference." He said, "I suggest you call my agent. Okay?" I said, "Thank you so much. I'm so sorry." And do you know, [00:26:30] I remember, honest to God, to this day, I was so paralyzed. I couldn't turn around. I walked out backwards, and then I felt for the knob. I go out the door, Barry's there. He says, "What happened?" I said, "We have to call Lou Pitt, his agent." Barry said, "Oh, I can do that." I said, "You can do that. After I [inaudible 00:26:53].

David Segal (00:26:58):
Hold on. I got to know. [00:27:00] It's one thing to be able to walk into a room and say, we have James Earl Jones, but James Earl Jones, when he agreed to do Othello, you had no money, no theater. You had an idea. You call him up. He wasn't just bored. What was it about you and Barry, and the proposition that you gave him that made him say yes.

Harley Finkelstein (00:27:21):
There's all chutzpah there, right? That is the definition of chutzpah.

David Segal (00:27:24):
How did you get him to say yes?

Fran Weissler (00:27:26):
First, I didn't do it. He told me I had to call the agent. [00:27:30] It is true. There's a three-hour time difference. We woke up at 5:00 the next morning. You have to remember, for 16 years all we did was play the Catholic school. Now we have maybe James Earl Jones, Christopher Plummer, Othello, the Winter Garden Theater based on their names and our first Broadway show with these two extraordinary-

David Segal (00:27:51):
Oh, wait, so it's a maybe. So James Earl Jones is not 100%.

Fran Weissler (00:27:54):
He's 100%.

David Segal (00:27:54):
He is 100%.

Fran Weissler (00:27:55):
But Chris-

David Segal (00:27:56):
Chris. And the theaters maybe too.

Fran Weissler (00:27:58):
The theater on the two [00:28:00] of them.

David Segal (00:28:00):
On the two of them. Got it.

Fran Weissler (00:28:02):
Nothing to do with us. Now we had to call Lou Pitt. There is a three-hour time difference, so we're up at 5:00 because we can't sleep. We're like crazy.

David Segal (00:28:13):
Which is two o'clock in the morning in LA.

Fran Weissler (00:28:15):
Oh God, it was so... Now 12 noon we call, it's nine o'clock. And we say, "This is Barry and Fran Weissler, may we please speak to Mr. Pitt?" She says, "Mr. Pitt never comes in before 10:00, which of [00:28:30] course, in Los Angeles, who comes in at 9:00?"

David Segal (00:28:33):
He was out the night before.

Fran Weissler (00:28:34):
Nobody comes in at 9:00 in LA. Here yes, here 8:00. Now we said, okay, so now it's two o'clock. We're up since 5:00. We're such a wreck. We call, "Oh, we're so sorry." She was so lovely, "Mr. Pitt had a dentist appointment and he'll be in an hour and a half. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to mislead you." [00:29:00] Now it's like 3:15. If I tell you that we couldn't even talk to each other, we were too... It was our whole new life depended upon this phone call. Now, okay, we finally call, "Yes, this is Lou Pitt." We said, "Oh, this is Fran and Barry Weissler. We wanted to ask you..." He said, "You don't have to say anything. I spoke to Mr. Plummer last night. You know there's a three-hour time difference?"

David Segal (00:29:28):
[inaudible 00:29:35].

Fran Weissler (00:29:30):
[00:29:30] We said, "Yes." And he said, "And Mr. Plummer would be delighted to play Iago opposite Mr. Jones as Othello." Do you know we couldn't speak? And so in a second there was, "Hello, hello." We couldn't... We said, "We're here. We're here." He said, "Okay, you're here?" I said, "Yeah." Barry said, "Yeah." He said, "Okay, [00:30:00] take a deep breath." I said, "Thank you, thank you." He said, "What's the deal?" And we said-

Harley Finkelstein (00:30:08):
What do you mean?

Fran Weissler (00:30:11):
We have to make him an offer. We have to pay them. Who knew we had to pay them?

Harley Finkelstein (00:30:14):
He's a professional actor.

Fran Weissler (00:30:19):
Barry was so much smarter than me. He said, "We didn't discuss the deal because we didn't want to make ourselves crazy if you said no, so [00:30:30] we'll call you tomorrow morning." He said, "You'll call me no later than 12 noon my time, or there's no deal. Do you get it?" Because we were nobody then. And he treated us like nobody.

Harley Finkelstein (00:30:40):
He pushed you around.

Fran Weissler (00:30:44):
"Do you get it?" We said, "We get it." The great thing about our industry, as you know, is everybody is nice to each other, whether it's TV, film, or theater. People help each other. We called three different very important people and said, "We [00:31:00] have James Earl Jones, we have Christopher Plummer. What do we pay them?" And they all were within like $10 of each other, so we knew exactly-

David Segal (00:31:08):
What to pay.

Fran Weissler (00:31:09):
... what to pay them and what to do.

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:10):
Now you have a great Iago and you have James Earl Jones.

Fran Weissler (00:31:12):
Oh my God, I have-

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:13):
You have Chris, you have James or Jimmy.

David Segal (00:31:15):
And a theater.

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:16):
And you have theater, and it's your first Broadway.

Fran Weissler (00:31:19):
And we win the Tony.

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:20):
And you won a Tony.

Fran Weissler (00:31:21):
I know.

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:22):
But you have no money to put this on.

Fran Weissler (00:31:25):
We assumed that if you have James Earl Jones and Christopher Plummer-

David Segal (00:31:27):
Then you get the money.

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:29):
Your first show [00:31:30] ever on Broadway, these two great people, great theater. You win at Tony. What's that like for you and Barry?

David Segal (00:31:36):
Can you imagine?

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:37):
No.

Fran Weissler (00:31:38):
Alec Cohen, who was in charge of the Tony's then, put us in the second to the last row of the theater knowing-

Harley Finkelstein (00:31:46):
What are the chances?

Fran Weissler (00:31:47):
He didn't know us, but it was stupid because of the name value of our stars. But he did it. I'm very awkward, so Barry, when we won, coming all the way down [00:32:00] the aisle, Barry saying, "Don't fall. Don't fall. Don't fall." He never stopped saying it because I've always been awkward, and I continue to be. Now we win the Tony.

Harley Finkelstein (00:32:13):
What was that like? You're on stage with your husband, who you're in love with, your first Broadway show, you're holding a Tony Award. What's that like for you?

Fran Weissler (00:32:20):
We were so beside ourselves, and we look out and we see all these, sea of producers and directors and actors-

Harley Finkelstein (00:32:26):
And so many people.

Fran Weissler (00:32:28):
... who are actually looking at us. [00:32:30] We spent all those years looking at them. And remember when I started doing well, I was 50 and 52, 53. I wasn't 20, 30, 40. I was in my 50s.

David Segal (00:32:42):
Why were you such a great producer? It's not luck. Yes, you had James Earl Jones and Christopher Plummer, but you were able to take this play and make magic out of it happen.

Fran Weissler (00:32:53):
I think we had a talent for it, and were very good together, Barry and me. We're very [00:33:00] different. Our personalities are very different, but we care deeply about each other. Therefore, we care about each other's opinions. We listen to each other and what he lacks I have and vice versa. And he's the business part of it. I'm much more the artistic part, although he's also artistic, but I'm not business. Not at all.

Harley Finkelstein (00:33:27):
Now you have this Tony, and now you have some momentum, but [00:33:30] then you had another hit, which was Medea.

Fran Weissler (00:33:32):
Medea.

Harley Finkelstein (00:33:33):
Tell us about that one.

Fran Weissler (00:33:34):
I remember it was with Zoe Caldwell, and when we were doing Othello, Peter Coe was the director, and we were rehearsing it in New Jersey in a theater there before it came to Broadway. And one day I walked into the theater and I was so terrified. I had these two actors and my first [00:34:00] Broadway show, and I didn't have confidence, and I was like a wreck and excited, an excited wreck. I walk into the theater and I'm in the middle and I see James Earl Jones is sitting on a poofy cushion, and he's like this. And Christopher is doing his... He's a great swordsman, so he's doing his thing and loving himself, which he did, which he did, but I loved him. He's doing his sword thing. [00:34:30] And Peter Coe, who's the director, is looking at Mr. Jones, who's looking like this, and he's saying, Mr. Jones, your problem isn't the direction I'm giving him. Obviously he questioned the direction. He said, your problem is that Mr. Plummer is mopping up the floor with you.

David Segal (00:34:56):
Wow.

Fran Weissler (00:34:57):
There are the directors who know that in [00:35:00] the show, if there are two people who don't like each other or who don't get along together and clash, it might be good to do that in real life so they can bring that real life animosity to the theater.

David Segal (00:35:15):
Wow, great strategy.

Fran Weissler (00:35:17):
I've never, ever-

David Segal (00:35:19):
Create a real conflict.

Harley Finkelstein (00:35:19):
Real conflict.

Fran Weissler (00:35:20):
Oh, I never felt that. I thought, you're an actor. You love each other. You're supposed to hate each other act. Come on.

Harley Finkelstein (00:35:29):
You're professional.

Fran Weissler (00:35:30):
[00:35:30] He's saying that to him, and Jimmy's got his head down and Christopher's doing his thing. And I'm thinking, oh my God, I think I'm the producer of this show, which-

Harley Finkelstein (00:35:47):
You didn't know you're the producer of this show.

Fran Weissler (00:35:50):
I said, "I can't let Jimmy sitting with like this. I'll get a phone call from Lucy telling me he quit." I walked down and I said, "Mr. [00:36:00] Coe, I'm Fran Weissler. I don't think you mean that. You're talking to two great actors, and I'm sure that you didn't really mean that Mr. Plummer was mopping up the floor with..." And he said, "And Mrs. Weissler, how many Broadway shows have you produced?" I said, "This is my first one." He said, "That's right. This is your first show. Do you understand? I know that. And you know that." I said, "Yes, I understand you know that." He said, "Mr. Jones, your problem isn't the line reading that I gave you. Your problem and I'm repeating myself, is that Mr. Plummer is mopping up the floor with [00:36:30] you." And James just kept looking there. And all of a sudden in that moment, maybe... [00:37:00] I don't know, I've never said it like this.

(00:37:02):
Maybe I became a producer. I looked at him and I said, "Mr. Coe, please don't say that anymore. We have a great show. We have two incredible actors. You're so lucky. I'm so lucky to be producing it. You're lucky to be directing it. Let's just move forward. What good does this do?" And he said again, "How many shows have you produced?" I said, again, "This is my first show." He said, "That's right." [00:37:30] And something clicked and I said, "Mr. Coe, this may be my very first Broadway show as a producer, but I know one thing a producer can do that a director cannot. A producer can fire a director, and you're fired." And that really happened.

Harley Finkelstein (00:37:53):
In front of the two actors?

Fran Weissler (00:37:53):
In front of everybody, whoever was sitting.

Harley Finkelstein (00:37:55):
Wow.

Fran Weissler (00:37:56):
And I said it, and then I thought, now I faint because I [00:38:00] couldn't believe... And you know something, with all due respect to him, he didn't say a word.

Harley Finkelstein (00:38:06):
He walked out?

Fran Weissler (00:38:06):
He walked out, he got his stuff together, and he walked out.

Harley Finkelstein (00:38:10):
Wow. What did Barry say when you're like, "I just fired our director"?

Fran Weissler (00:38:12):
No, Barry was in New York in the office. Now, Christopher now drops the sword, and James quietly looks up and they're both staring at me and I'm thinking, "Oh, shit. What do I do?" [00:38:30] I said, "Don't worry. Take the rest of the day off. Relax, go to your dressing rooms, go to your homes. We'll be here tomorrow and everything will get explained and done, and please don't worry about a thing." And they just couldn't leave. They just-

Harley Finkelstein (00:38:52):
They couldn't believe it.

Fran Weissler (00:38:53):
They stood there and kept looking at me, and I couldn't... Anyway, they left. They left. I'm alone [00:39:00] in the auditorium, and I turned around and I look at all these seats and I'm thinking-

Harley Finkelstein (00:39:04):
They're all empty at this point because there's one there, there's empty seats.

Fran Weissler (00:39:07):
And I'm thinking, what the hell did I just do? But I know, I knew in my gut it was right. I knew you can't treat an actor like James Earl... I knew. I said, "Okay, Fran, get your act together." I went to the office, I called Barry and he says, "Oh, how are things?"

Harley Finkelstein (00:39:29):
What'd you say?

Fran Weissler (00:39:30):
[00:39:30] I said, "Do you mind coming? I have things I have to tell you." And he said, "Fran, I don't know." I said, "Just come. You have to come. It's really important." He said, "Can you tell me on the phone?" I said, "I don't think so." He said, "I'll come." He came, and of course I told him, and that night Chris was in another show because they performed in repertory, all those theaters in Stratford. There's a Stratford in London, in Canada, and in Connecticut. [00:40:00] We watched the first act and Barry said, "I don't know what we're going to do. This is just..." I said, "I don't know either. I don't know either." At the end of the show, we went into the dressing room and the dressing room was filled with well-wishers and people that loved Christopher, and one of them was Zoe Caldwell with her husband, who at that time was a great producer.

(00:40:29):
His name was Robert Whitehead, [00:40:30] and if you ever look him up, he was a gentleman, a white-haired, good-looking, semi older guy, and Zoe Caldwell was, wow. She was a great actress. Anyway, I had an idea seeing them in the dressing room. I don't know where it came from, but they go to leave. And I said to Barry, "I'm just going to follow them. Give me one minute." I follow them out. And I said, "Would it be okay, [00:41:00] Ms. Caldwell and Mr. Whitehead if I called you in the morning, I just have to ask you something really important." Which just, I don't know why, but it fermented in my mind. And she said, "Who are you?" I said, "My name is Fran Weissler." She said, "So." I said, "I am going to produce this show with my husband, and if I could just..." She said, "Why would I give you my phone number? I have no idea who you are and in spite of what you just said. I'm not [00:41:30] giving you my phone number."

(00:41:32):
And Robert Whitehead said this, and I'll never forget because he said this very slim girl. I was very thin then, and I'll always remember he was saying, "This very slim girl came running out and asked us to call and we're going to say no to her. She followed us out." He said, "Here's my phone number."

Harley Finkelstein (00:41:55):
Wow, that's amazing.

Fran Weissler (00:41:56):
He was so fabulous. Now, I wait and wait [00:42:00] and wait, and I had this idea because I knew Christopher was very close to Zoe and Robert. The next morning I have the number, I call and she said, "This is Zoe. What do you want Mrs. Weissler? She said, "What do you want?" I said, "I want an incredible favor for you." She said, "Tell me what it is."

(00:42:23):
I said, "I want you to direct the rest of the show." She said, "I'm an actress. I'm not a director. [00:42:30] I don't know about blocking. I don't know about costumes. I don't know about sets." I said, "You don't have to know that. We have the blocking. It's all done," which is where they go. We have the sets, we have the costumes, we have the lighting. I just need someone to work with Jimmy and Chris and the rest of the actors. And since he was in her dressing room, and both James and Chris have a say on who directs, they can say yes or no to [00:43:00] a producer because they're such big stars.

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:02):
And you knew they had a connection to Zoe.

Fran Weissler (00:43:04):
She's in the dressing room with him. And I knew James would say yes to anything. He was so easy. But Chris was not easy. She said, "Why would I direct the show?" I said, "You don't have to do anything, just direct it. They have such respect for you and will you just think about it." She said, "All right, call me back in a week." I said, "I have to call you back tomorrow morning at nine o'clock." [00:43:30] She said, "Call me in a week." I said, "I have to call you back tomorrow." The next morning I call and she says, "I didn't sleep all night because my husband kept me up and I'm going to direct," I'm going to quote her, "your fucking show." That's exactly what she said. "I'm going to do it, but I want something in return." I said, "Anything. What do you want?" She said, "All my life I wanted to play Medea. Will you produce [00:44:00] it." I said, "I will produce it and you can play it."

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:02):
Wow. What a story.

Fran Weissler (00:44:03):
She said, "Okay, after I direct this. Do you give me your word?" I said, "I give you my word." She said, "Do you have to talk to Barry?" I said, "I'll tell him. He'll understand." She directed the show and they listened to her. The show was such a hit. It ran for a year and a half or however long you can do with Shakespeare, and we won our first Tony and she directed it. Then she starred the same [00:44:30] year in Medea-

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:31):
Which you produced as well.

Fran Weissler (00:44:32):
... which I produced. And she won the Tony.

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:35):
Amazing.

Fran Weissler (00:44:36):
Nobody ever heard of us, so we won.

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:39):
Now basically, you're two for two at this point.

Fran Weissler (00:44:41):
I know it. And she says, "And I thank you, Fran and Barry Weissler," so they heard our name twice.

David Segal (00:44:46):
It's a hell of a rookie season.

Fran Weissler (00:44:47):
That was the beginning of our-

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:49):
I have to say, there's this theme that emerges here, Fran, which is when you... First of all, frankly, leaving a husband that you loved but weren't in love with, taking [00:45:00] a chance with Barry to go effectively go to these Catholic schools. Getting someone like James Earl Jones and Chris to be in the show, dealing with this whole Medea thing and firing the director, which frankly you had no business doing, but you felt it was the right thing to do. There is a sense of trusting your gut, a sense of, I will figure it out. Where does that come from? How did you develop that?

Fran Weissler (00:45:29):
From being 50. [00:45:30] I think if I had been 22 or 32... I had more confidence in myself. I had lived longer. I had seen more. That's the only thing I can think of. I can't give myself credit that I had great foresight or talent.

Harley Finkelstein (00:45:49):
But you did have some chutzpah.

Fran Weissler (00:45:50):
I had chutzpah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:45:50):
And that chutzpah-

David Segal (00:45:53):
Did you ever?

Harley Finkelstein (00:45:53):
... that's something that we think a lot about, which is that a lot of a disproportionate amount of Jews [00:46:00] and people, Jews from very humble beginnings have this chutzpah and you embody that. And often it's because-

Fran Weissler (00:46:07):
They need it, because they're always down here, so they need that kind of chutzpah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:46:11):
Explain that a little bit to us. We think a lot about that. What do you mean by they're always down here? What does that mean?

Fran Weissler (00:46:15):
Well, Jews have always been... They're not Christians, which rules the universe. And there has always been some anti-Semitism. Times when it's here, times when it's not. Now, [00:46:30] slowly it's scaring me a little bit.

Harley Finkelstein (00:46:33):
Me too.

Fran Weissler (00:46:34):
But I don't know. I think in order to counter that, you work twice as hard because you think it's not going to be as easy to get there being a Jew as being Christian. And you don't know you're doing it. You don't say it out loud like I'm doing now. It just happens.

Harley Finkelstein (00:46:55):
You have no choice.

David Segal (00:46:56):
It was chutzpah, but it was also this situational creativity. [00:47:00] And this comes across time and time again in your career, whether it's the Kathleen Turner story, which I'm sure we'll get into, but you cast people in unusual roles. Here you took someone who had never directed anything and put her in a director's situation, and you win a Tony for it.

Fran Weissler (00:47:18):
And she wins.

Harley Finkelstein (00:47:19):
And then she won a Tony for it.

David Segal (00:47:20):
And then she wins a Tony-

Harley Finkelstein (00:47:20):
Medea.

David Segal (00:47:21):
... for Medea.

Fran Weissler (00:47:23):
That was so exciting.

David Segal (00:47:24):
How are you able to see that, uncover that talent in people [00:47:30] and take them into their first role in a new setting?

Fran Weissler (00:47:33):
I don't think I had any idea what I was doing. I think it happened. I don't think I was wise enough or smart enough. Truly, I'm not being humble, I really believe... I didn't know what I was doing. It all happened and it happened to me, but not because of me. And then after that, [00:48:00] Barry, even more so than myself, began to produce and learn how to produce and value what it was to be a producer. But then it happened to me. I didn't plan it.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:16):
I want to talk a little bit about... I want to get to Chicago, because Chicago is now, I believe the longest running show.

Fran Weissler (00:48:22):
The longest running American show.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:24):
American show.

David Segal (00:48:25):
23 years on Broadway.

Fran Weissler (00:48:25):
26.

David Segal (00:48:25):
26 now.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:26):
26, come on.

David Segal (00:48:28):
The years go by quick.

Fran Weissler (00:48:30):
[00:48:30] The longest running-

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:31):
American show.

Fran Weissler (00:48:31):
... show is Phantom.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:34):
Interesting.

Fran Weissler (00:48:34):
Phantom's, four years more than us.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:36):
You'll catch up.

Fran Weissler (00:48:37):
You think?

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:38):
I think so.

Fran Weissler (00:48:39):
Well, they're over and you're in 20-

David Segal (00:48:40):
That's five country-

Fran Weissler (00:48:41):
Do we have four more years?

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:42):
That's right. Phantom's done. And you're still going.

Fran Weissler (00:48:44):
Oh, God. It's tough.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:46):
I think you will continue. I'm going to call you, by the way, when you become the number one globally.

Fran Weissler (00:48:52):
Thank you, thank you. We'll have dinner.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:54):
I would love it.

Fran Weissler (00:48:54):
You pay.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:54):
I'll cook. I'll cook.

David Segal (00:48:56):
I'm also a foodie.

Fran Weissler (00:48:57):
Expensive.

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:57):
I want to talk about, you did obviously Chicago, [00:49:00] but also after Medea, things really started to progress.

David Segal (00:49:04):
You did Fiddler at the same time as you're doing Gypsy and another show. You went from being a rookie producer to winning a Tony, to then having your next show with an actress who wins a Tony to then producing three major Broadway plays, all of which were enormously successful at the same time.

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:20):
And although we're talking about theater here, there's this incredible entrepreneurial thing here, which is, there's a quote that I read that you said, which I love, which is, you can't just sell shows on Fridays [00:49:30] and Saturdays that you need to figure out a way to have-

David Segal (00:49:33):
Wednesday nights.

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:34):
... Wednesday nights packed.

David Segal (00:49:36):
How did you do that?

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:37):
And how did you do that? Because that is... Again, I know you may not call yourself a business Titan or-

Fran Weissler (00:49:44):
No, but Barry is almost a genius, really talented at marketing. That's who he is. And you have to market it. You have to sell it. I'm not good at that. It's not who I am. But he loves it, and he comes up with extraordinary [00:50:00] ideas and works with our press agent and our marketing people, and he made it happen.

David Segal (00:50:05):
Where did you make the most impact?

Fran Weissler (00:50:09):
I go to every audition. Barry goes to the final audition. I'm very good with the actors. I'm really good with the director. Anything to do with the artistic end of it. Barry is also good with that but he is good with the business and I am not.

David Segal (00:50:26):
For you it's the people.

Fran Weissler (00:50:29):
No matter what, [00:50:30] the bottom line is filling seats. It doesn't matter how great the show, how bad... Are people going to come?

David Segal (00:50:37):
Well, but you got some big names. You got Kathleen Turner, who at the time was a huge actress who had never done a Broadway play. But in that moment, she made a haphazard comment that she wanted to do Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. And you read this and called her up.

Fran Weissler (00:50:51):
We got her.

David Segal (00:50:53):
Anthony Quinn as well.

Fran Weissler (00:50:55):
Oh, my God.

David Segal (00:50:56):
Tell us those stories.

Harley Finkelstein (00:50:57):
We love those stories.

Fran Weissler (00:50:58):
With Zorba, he [00:51:00] did it in the movies, so we gave him the opportunity to do it in theater.

David Segal (00:51:08):
This is Zorba the Greek?

Fran Weissler (00:51:09):
This is Anthony Quinn, and he was with us four years, a year and a half on Broadway, two and a half years on the road. No matter what I said to him, he said, "Thank you so much. I'll discuss it with Barry." No matter what I said. And I knew he [00:51:30] wasn't just an American... What do you call... That doesn't talk to women.

David Segal (00:51:35):
Chauvinist.

Harley Finkelstein (00:51:36):
Chauvinist.

Fran Weissler (00:51:37):
He wasn't an American male chauvinist. I knew he was born in Mexico, and I knew... Not Ireland. And I knew that his mother walked five steps behind his father and that the man made all the decisions, and that's how he grew up. When I would come to him, he would say, "Thank you so much. I'll discuss [00:52:00] it with Barry." And it was fine. But after a year and a half, I thought, I'm going to kill myself. I can't have a conversation with him. Nothing I say makes any sense to him, nor is he interested in my opinion. I thought for a year and a half, and then finally I said, I can't stand it. I invited him. I said, "Barry and I want to take you to lunch to The Russian Tea Room." At that time-

David Segal (00:52:30):
[00:52:30] The place,

Fran Weissler (00:52:30):
... the place to go. Faith Stewart ran it.

David Segal (00:52:35):
It's still around today.

Fran Weissler (00:52:37):
And there were two places. If you go into the Russian Team, one here, one there that were the places to sit. If you were with a celebrity or you were a celebrity, they gave you those two. And the whole place walked in and looked at those tables. I'm sitting at that table without Barry alone because I'm holding the place [00:53:00] for Anthony Quinn. Anthony Quinn walks in, it takes him 15 minutes to get to the table, because-

David Segal (00:53:07):
He's giving autographs everywhere he goes.

Fran Weissler (00:53:09):
Anthony Quinn, Anthony Quinn, and he's got a cravat, and he's got the whole thing and the gray hair in the-

David Segal (00:53:14):
Paparazzis.

Fran Weissler (00:53:15):
Everything. Everything. He gets to the table and he sees I'm alone and he says, "Where's Barry?" And I said, "He was coming, but something came up and he wasn't able to come. I'm so sorry. He wasn't [00:53:30] able to come." He turns around to leave. The whole place is looking at us. I remember. I, honest to God, remember, Harley, reaching across the thing and grabbing his thing and said, "Please, I'm a woman alone. Don't do this to me. You're a gentleman," which is a lie. He was never a gentleman. I said, "Please, please, please sit with me." He said, "All right. All right." He comes around and he sits with me. Everything he said during that lunch was [00:54:00] monosyllabic. Not two syllables. Mm-hm. No. Yeah. Mm-mm. Not even maybe.

(00:54:07):
He wouldn't give me the benefit of him speaking to me. He wanted me to know, so we had this horrible lunch. When they were ready to serve coffee, which he didn't want, but I ordered tea, so he was forced to stay. I called over the [00:54:30] maitre d and I said, "I have to talk alone to Mr. Quinn. Would you please not give us service for the next 10 minutes or so?" He said, "Of course. Of course." I looked at him and I said, "Mr. Quinn, Tony." He said, "Mr. Quinn." I said, "Okay, Mr. Quinn, I guess you wondered why I've brought you here under false circumstances." Thank you.

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:57):
Of course.

Fran Weissler (00:54:58):
And he says-

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:59):
I try to be a gentleman unlike [00:55:00] Anthony Quinn.

Fran Weissler (00:55:02):
It works. He says, "Yeah, I want to know why. I want to know why you lied to me. I want to know why you're a liar." That's exactly what he said, Why you're a liar." And I said, "I just want you to know that I have the highest regard for you as an actor. I know that you have no true craft, but I know you have incredible charisma, and that charisma goes across [00:55:30] the floodlights and the audience loves you." I also wanted him to know, I knew he had no craft.

Harley Finkelstein (00:55:37):
You wanted to give him a little bit and maybe give him a little bit of a shot.

Fran Weissler (00:55:40):
I don't know if he was smart enough to get it.

Harley Finkelstein (00:55:42):
To hear that. Wow.

Fran Weissler (00:55:43):
He heard charisma.

Harley Finkelstein (00:55:44):
You gave him a little bit of a jab. But you want him to know you put him in his place a bit.

Fran Weissler (00:55:48):
I said, "I just want you to know I have the greatest respect for you as an actor. Honest to God, it's this much. If you could give me just this much respect as a producer, [00:56:00] I would be so grateful because I really care about your costumes. I care about your props. I care that you're happy with the other directors. I care that you respect the actor. And I will support you in all those ways if you would just give me a little more respect. Even half as much as you give Barry." And he said, "You know, kid..." That's how [00:56:30] he talked.

Harley Finkelstein (00:56:31):
And you're in your 50s at this point.

Fran Weissler (00:56:31):
I'm maybe 60.

Harley Finkelstein (00:56:31):
And you've won Tony's. You're not nobody.

Fran Weissler (00:56:31):
He says, "You know kid, you're quite a kid. I get it. I really get it. You know something? I will call you. I will call you and I'll do business with you and Barry." I said, "Thank you so much." The bill comes, and believe it or not, he reaches for the bill. And I said, "Why are you reaching for the bill?" He said, "Because I'm the man." I said, "You may be the man, but I'm your boss." I paid the bill. Now, the next morning, [00:57:00] Anthony Quinn calls, we had a housekeeper. She says, "Anthony Quinn's on the phone." And Barry said, "I'll get it." She said, "No, he isn't asking for you, Mr. Weissler. He's asking for Mrs. Weissler." He's calling me, so I go and get the phone. I said, "Hi, Tony. How are you?" He said, "You said I could call you." I said, "Yes." He said, "Listen, we're going on tour soon." I said, "Right." He says, "I want the masseuse to travel first class. [00:57:30] That's my first favor, direct favor for you."

(00:57:37):
He asked if he could have a masseuse, and he was an older man. He did eight shows a week. He deserved it, and we were happy to pay for it, so we got him a masseuse. I got a call from his agent about a week after, and his agent said, "Thank you very much for getting him a masseuse." I said, "I'm delighted." [00:58:00] He said, "He needs a masseuse that specializes." And I said, "That specializes?" It was so stupid. When he used to get out of the show, Yolanda, his wife was sitting right there. God forbid, another woman walked in the dressing room.

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:23):
She was protective.

Fran Weissler (00:58:25):
Not protecting him. She was jealous.

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:27):
Okay, got it.

Fran Weissler (00:58:28):
She was there. Nobody [00:58:30] else was going to be there. He wanted a masseuse, and he wanted a masseuse that would do something special. And I was so stupid. I said, "What is she supposed to do?"

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:45):
And why does a masseuse need a first class ticket?

Fran Weissler (00:58:50):
She said, "Ask Barry." Barry said, Fran, I said-

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:54):
A special masseuse.

Fran Weissler (00:58:55):
Oh, okay.

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:56):
Happy ending masseuse.

Fran Weissler (00:58:59):
We wanted [00:59:00] the masseuse to travel first class. And I said, "Look...." I said, "Tony..." I called him-

Harley Finkelstein (00:59:06):
Now you're calling him Tony.

Fran Weissler (00:59:08):
I called him and I'm calling him Tony. I said, "Listen, you can have the masseuse and the masseuse can make you very happy and do a good massage." I said, "But you were traveling first class. Your wife is traveling first class. Do you think the masseuse sitting next to you and your wife in first class, your wife may question [00:59:30] that?" He said, "You're so smart. I've never thought of that." I said, "Look, you're going to travel first class. Your wife is going to travel first class. "She can travel business class." I said, "She's traveling coach, and don't talk to me about it anymore." He was with us four years, and he sold out every performance, and she traveled coach-

Harley Finkelstein (00:59:57):
The whole time.

Fran Weissler (00:59:59):
... the whole time. And he [01:00:00] had her with him the whole time-

Harley Finkelstein (01:00:01):
The whole time.

Fran Weissler (01:00:02):
... because the wife wasn't going to go in and watch his massage.

David Segal (01:00:06):
You built this reputation as being able to really work with the actors and actresses. Tell us about Kathleen Turner, because she was such a big name at that time.

Fran Weissler (01:00:15):
She was a huge deal.

David Segal (01:00:16):
Huge deal.

Fran Weissler (01:00:17):
And we sold out Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and she wanted a certain person to play Big Daddy and I had chosen and contracted... I think Barry had done Charles [01:00:30] Durning. And she came to me and said, "I don't want Charles Durning. I want someone else." The other person she wanted was terrific, but so was Charles Durning. And I had already... I said, "There's nothing in your contract, Kathleen, that says-"

Harley Finkelstein (01:00:50):
You get to choose.

Fran Weissler (01:00:50):
"... that you get to choose. Your agent didn't put it in your contract. If he had, we'd be in a whole different place." I said, "Charles Durning [01:01:00] is playing Big Daddy." She said, "I don't believe this." Again, I said, "You don't like him, you're an actress, act." And she said, "Then I'm going to choose Brick." I said, "If I have Charles Durning and Kathleen Turner, who cares who Brick is, as long as he's decent?"

Harley Finkelstein (01:01:21):
Amazing. There's two things that I want to ask you about. The first thing is how you deal with incredible talent. Because David's right, one of the things that, the theme that emerges [01:01:30] when you ask people about you Fran and hear your stories, you have this way of dealing with these huge celebrities that are triple A-list. I want to talk about that. I also want to talk about the transition of you feeling that chauvinistic, I'm Barry's wife, to you being Fran on your own, big shot. Let's start with the celebrity stuff first. How did you figure out a way... What was the formula that you used [01:02:00] to crack these incredible A-listers so that they listened to you and they did the best work of their lives, of their careers.

Fran Weissler (01:02:06):
I didn't have to deal with them on a professional level like you might think I did. The director did that. The director directed the show. Once you've produced the show, you give it to the director. The director gives it to the actors. The actors give it to the audience. I'm almost out of it except for the producers, [01:02:30] but it keeps going down. I didn't really have to... I could be above the fray as could Barry, so we could be lovely while the director's giving them hell. I can't remember. I'm sure there were, if I searched my brain more, but I think we got along, Barry and myself, with almost every actor we worked with. We respected them. They got here because they [01:03:00] belonged here. Obviously, they had the talent and the wherewithal, and we always showed them great respect and underneath, just like all of us, they were insecure and they were secure, and they had the same feivels that all of us.

Harley Finkelstein (01:03:15):
And you understood that. Talk a bit about this, you emerging from Barry's wife to being Fran on your own. Anthony Quinn can't be the only chauvinist.

David Segal (01:03:26):
That's right.

Harley Finkelstein (01:03:26):
... that you came across. People refer to you as the queen of Broadway. [01:03:30] When did that happen?

Fran Weissler (01:03:30):
That's a lie.

Harley Finkelstein (01:03:31):
Well, that's what everyone else says and everyone else does, but when did that happen and how important was that for you to be out of the shadow? You guys were a partner, an amazing partnership, the Barry and Fran show, but you are also just Fran on your own.

David Segal (01:03:47):
You brought a lot to the table.

Fran Weissler (01:03:52):
Like I go to every audition, Barry goes to the final audition, I said. I was very involved [01:04:00] with the creative end, and I'm repeating myself, but he was also, but not to the degree I was. But Barry produced the show and there's a lot to producing other than the rehearsal hall.

Harley Finkelstein (01:04:16):
Fundraising in itself.

Fran Weissler (01:04:19):
Oh, God. Just getting money to... 80% of Broadway shows fail, 80%. They pay back 50%, 75% or none of their money.

Harley Finkelstein (01:04:30):
[01:04:30] Wow.

Fran Weissler (01:04:30):
80% and I'm not exaggerating,

Harley Finkelstein (01:04:33):
And those are the good ones.

Fran Weissler (01:04:34):
But I think it's because also most producers work alone and they bring in partners. We're already like this, and we're very fortunate. We deeply care about each other, which is I know how rare that is.

Harley Finkelstein (01:04:48):
Let's talk about that partnership because that is probably one of the major secret ingredients to your success-

Fran Weissler (01:04:55):
I think so, that's the cornerstone.

Harley Finkelstein (01:04:55):
...has been the two of you working together, but actually one of the fascinating parts. David and I [01:05:00] are both fortunate to be deeply in love with our wives and our kids, but our wives in particular. And one of the things we've noticed across this whole Big Shot project is behind every Big Shot is a massive support system, particularly from their spouse. And you and Barry have been married how many years?

Fran Weissler (01:05:18):
56.

Harley Finkelstein (01:05:19):
56 years. We sat down with someone recently who was married 67 years.

David Segal (01:05:24):
67, 65.

Harley Finkelstein (01:05:25):
These are amazing stories of incredible relationships. What's been the secret [01:05:30] or the key to you and Barry not only building an empire together, but frankly being this incredible couple?

Fran Weissler (01:05:37):
I don't think you can make it happen. I honestly don't. I think it's very rare, and believe me, I appreciate it if two people love each other and can be together year after year after year. And [01:06:00] there's not one day that I don't appreciate what we have, and he'll kill me for saying this, but there's not one day in 56 years that he hasn't said, I love you to me, not one day. And don't ever let him know.

Harley Finkelstein (01:06:16):
He'll never know this. It's our little secret.

Fran Weissler (01:06:19):
Don't tell.

Harley Finkelstein (01:06:19):
We'll tell you everyone. Wow. Every single day he's told you-

Fran Weissler (01:06:23):
Either nighttime or morning. He just does and-

Harley Finkelstein (01:06:29):
What a lovely-

David Segal (01:06:29):
That's beautiful.

Fran Weissler (01:06:30):
[01:06:30] We love each other and much more. We're in love with each other and it's so fabulous. And I have so many friends and they're in good marriages. They're not in great marriages.

Harley Finkelstein (01:06:43):
And what's the difference to you? What's the difference in that way?

Fran Weissler (01:06:47):
I don't think you can work at it. You have to, but you either have it or sometimes you don't. And I think 90% of the time, two people... [01:07:00] You pick a person that's a stranger and society says you spend the rest of your life with that person and you have children with that person. And of course you can get divorced, but how many times are you supposed to... It's really not normal to pick one person in the whole world that you decide to spend your life with.

(01:07:20):
And if you find that person and it works, oh my God, cherish it because it's so unrealistically difficult, but we [01:07:30] found it. And so, one of the keys, I think, to any success we may have enjoyed is the fact that we are so close that when I say something, he listens. And when he says something, I do. When I turned 90, five years ago, I started doing less. I got more tired, and I continued to get more tired. And now at 95, I'm not working half as hard, [01:08:00] half. I go to Florida to Palm Beach for four months. I could never... Whoever envisioned that I... And believe me, I'm not working there.

Harley Finkelstein (01:08:10):
You weren't the Palm Beach type.

Fran Weissler (01:08:12):
I love it there.

David Segal (01:08:14):
You only slowed down at 90.

Fran Weissler (01:08:15):
I know and I know, but I'm telling you, up until 90, I worked very hard. For the last five years, I'm not working that hard.

David Segal (01:08:24):
Let's shift gears to Chicago, which you were very successful, but Chicago changed your lives.

Fran Weissler (01:08:29):
It changed our [01:08:30] lives professionally and economically.

David Segal (01:08:33):
But nobody wanted it.

Fran Weissler (01:08:34):
Nobody.

David Segal (01:08:35):
What did you guys see in Chicago that others didn't?

Fran Weissler (01:08:37):
Well, it was at the Encore series, you know that. They do all shows that failed. And although we've been producing it for 26 years, like 30 years prior to that way, way back, Chicago opened and closed in something like six to eight weeks.

David Segal (01:08:55):
Wow.

Fran Weissler (01:08:55):
It was full costume.

David Segal (01:08:56):
On Broadway?

Fran Weissler (01:08:57):
On Broadway. On Broadway. It was full costumes, [01:09:00] full sets, full... They did it like a normal show. And for whatever reason it didn't succeed. They did it at Encores. And Encores only produces failed shows. And they honor maybe the playwright, the composer, the lyricist. Maybe there's one great song. We went the fourth night because we thought, who cares? It's a failed show. We go the fourth night and it's just, everybody's in their underwear. The orchestra's [01:09:30] on stage, there's chairs lined up on either end and all the actors are sitting in the chairs. It's so informal. And I remember saying, "Oh my God, I love the show." And Barry went home and said, "We love this show." We went the fourth night. We called Kander and Ebb, who were the composer and lyricists and have the rights. And we said, "We know we went the fourth night. We know every producer in New York wants to do the show. Give us just a little piece [01:10:00] of it. We don't even care if our name is on it," which is a lie. We care.

David Segal (01:10:04):
Of course. Hustler. I love it.

Fran Weissler (01:10:09):
There's a long pause and Fred Ebb says, "You've got the host show." We said, "What do you mean we have the host show?" He said, "Nobody wants the show." Barry and I are in two phones and we're looking at each other thinking, "What's wrong with us? What don't we get?" [01:10:30] We said, "Look, we give you our word. We will produce Chicago. We give you our word. And we already produce Cabaret that you did and Zorba that they did, so you know us well. Do you mind telling us, do you know why nobody wants to produce the show?"

(01:10:49):
They said, "Funny, you should ask. And it's the fourth day, we called this morning the Nederlanders and the Schuberts and said, do you mind telling us we took away all [01:11:00] this junk and now it's just a tight show that we think is great. Why don't you want to produce the show? And they both said the same thing. The Nederlanders and the Schuberts, they said, there's no French Revolution. What's the thing falling? Chandelier dropping and there's no helicopter on stage. That's what we're looking for."

David Segal (01:11:23):
There's no dramatic moment.

Fran Weissler (01:11:24):
Les Mis, Phantom of the Opera and Miss Saigon with a helicopter.

David Segal (01:11:30):
[01:11:30] They wanted to copy of formula.

Fran Weissler (01:11:31):
They wanted a big, big thing. And we have this show where the actors are practically in black and the orchestra's right in front of you and there's no sets.

David Segal (01:11:42):
But what did you see that was-

Fran Weissler (01:11:43):
I don't know. You know how sometimes either of you, you walk in somewhere and you say, this is it for me?

David Segal (01:11:49):
Yeah.

Fran Weissler (01:11:50):
You go into a restaurant and say, "Haven't I been here before?" We just knew. It was just luck or stupidity or smartness. [01:12:00] We just knew.

Harley Finkelstein (01:12:01):
And then what did it take for you? Now you own the show.

Fran Weissler (01:12:04):
Now the reason it changed our lives economically is all those people wouldn't give us money. First of all, people don't like to invest in Broadway, too many failures.

David Segal (01:12:14):
80%.

Fran Weissler (01:12:15):
It really is 78, 80. Nobody, it was two and a half million. When you think that Hamilton is 19 million, wicked is 17 million. This is two and a half million. [01:12:30] But if you don't have it-

Harley Finkelstein (01:12:33):
It could be a billion dollars. It doesn't matter.

Fran Weissler (01:12:36):
It could be a billion. We went to five banks, three in New Jersey, I believe, three in New Jersey and two in the Islander. Vice versa. We borrowed 500 from each bank, so we had two and a half million, so all the money is ours.

Harley Finkelstein (01:12:53):
Wow.

Fran Weissler (01:12:53):
Now when the review came out and all you do opening night is wait to read the damn New York [01:13:00] Times. And at that time it was Ben Brantley and something like, "Run, do not walk to the blah blah theater to see the greatest show." We almost fainted.

David Segal (01:13:14):
And that two and a half million.

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:15):
Where did that come from?

David Segal (01:13:16):
Was that all in? What was at stake for you at that point?

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:19):
Who gave you that money?

David Segal (01:13:20):
The banks.

Fran Weissler (01:13:21):
Five different banks, but only 500 each.

David Segal (01:13:24):
But you signed for it, I'm assuming?

Fran Weissler (01:13:25):
Oh, yeah. Oh, we would've, okay.

David Segal (01:13:25):
It wasn't with a bank-

Fran Weissler (01:13:25):
We would've.

David Segal (01:13:25):
... it was small chunk.

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:28):
You would've been done. You would've been-

Fran Weissler (01:13:29):
Done.

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:30):
[01:13:30] ... bankrupt.

Fran Weissler (01:13:31):
Bankrupt.

David Segal (01:13:32):
You went all in on Chicago, this play that neither of the other two big producing families wanted.

Fran Weissler (01:13:37):
Have you ever... I'm sure you have. Sometimes you fall in love with something you're passionate about. You don't know why. Nobody might like it, but you just know it does something to your gut. And we're producers, so that's what we do for a living, so we thought we just loved it so much.

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:55):
And usually that's what leads to the greatest success. That's-

Fran Weissler (01:13:57):
Or not.

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:58):
Or not, but that's Big Shot [01:14:00] for David and I. Big Shot we're doing for us, just these type of conversations are everything. This fills us with great energy. And we didn't know if anyone would listen to it. It turns out a lot of people do want to listen to it, but you're right, sometimes you go with your gut instinct on it.

David Segal (01:14:12):
It's not uncommon for lots of the Big Shots we've had on the show to have been enormously successful and then push all their chips in the middle and burn the boats and really put it all on the line for one thing that they truly believe in.

Fran Weissler (01:14:27):
I know.

David Segal (01:14:28):
And this was-

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:29):
And [01:14:30] now you're 24 years later, with Chicago, is it? You said 24 years.

Fran Weissler (01:14:33):
26.

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:34):
26 years later with Chicago. Longest running American show. Soon to be longest running global show.

Fran Weissler (01:14:41):
Maybe, maybe.

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:42):
Maybe. I'm going to bet on it. And no one wanted it.

Fran Weissler (01:14:47):
Nobody.

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:49):
I want to talk a little, just as we close up here because I don't want to keep you too long. This idea of making it, one of the things that David and I struggle with quite a bit, and a [01:15:00] lot of our guests talk about this is have we done enough? Are we doing enough? This concept of enough and I'm curious for you, given all your success at your stage in your life, when did you know that you made it?

Fran Weissler (01:15:15):
Over a period of time, dear, just producing show after show, and the money started coming in and the reviews started coming in and the actors fell in love with us. We fell in love with them. I [01:15:30] don't think we ever had a moment where we... I think it was gradual. And even today, when you do a new show, we have a new show coming out, you're a wreck

Harley Finkelstein (01:15:41):
Even now? Fran, after all this?

Fran Weissler (01:15:44):
But if you have something-

David Segal (01:15:46):
You're only as good as your last show.

Fran Weissler (01:15:47):
You're only as... And you too. Whatever you're doing, if you're doing something new-

David Segal (01:15:52):
Did those failures really sting hard?

Fran Weissler (01:15:54):
Yeah. You fail.

David Segal (01:15:56):
You fail.

Fran Weissler (01:15:58):
And your investors lose their money. [01:16:00] You want to kill yourself and you failed. But we've had so much success. But our new show was called Real Women Have Curves, which is true. And Sergio Trujillo is directing it. He directed Jersey Boys, so he's really good. And he's a choreographer director, so we'll be a wreck.

Harley Finkelstein (01:16:22):
And you're still involved in every audition for that.

Fran Weissler (01:16:24):
Oh, yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (01:16:26):
Last question I'll ask you, is this.

Fran Weissler (01:16:27):
Good. I'm ready.

Harley Finkelstein (01:16:28):
You said that [01:16:30] your father wasn't able to see your success, but the rest of your family is, you have children. Do you want them to go into the family business? Is it a family business?

Fran Weissler (01:16:40):
I pray they don't.

Harley Finkelstein (01:16:41):
You pray they don't. Why?

Fran Weissler (01:16:42):
It's really hard. And if you fail, you fail big. You have all this money and then you have none, and you lose your reputation a little bit. We've been lucky, whatever, and not, but I'd like them to find their own [01:17:00] way. And the one thing, you know how you want your kids to follow in your footsteps. We never did.

Harley Finkelstein (01:17:05):
You don't?

Fran Weissler (01:17:06):
It's so hard. And it's fraught with so much nervousness. The good thing I have is Barry and vice... We have each other, and if something goes wrong, we can [inaudible 01:17:22] together.

Harley Finkelstein (01:17:22):
Console each other.

Fran Weissler (01:17:23):
Someone of my kids alone doing it. And they've all found their own way in very different [01:17:30] kinds of businesses. And we're this close. We're a very, very close-knit family.

Harley Finkelstein (01:17:35):
Has the industry changed? Has the business of theater changed dramatically or is it generally the same formula, the same system? That has always been the case. Great show. Great story. Do you need a chandelier and a helicopter to make it work?

Fran Weissler (01:17:54):
Yeah. I think you have an idea. Everything to me is the choice of director [01:18:00] after the choice of show.

Harley Finkelstein (01:18:02):
First you pick the show, then you pick the director.

Fran Weissler (01:18:04):
And then you pick the director. And if you're lucky and you pick right, and it's not Peter Coe and you don't have to fire him.

Harley Finkelstein (01:18:12):
What happened to him?

Fran Weissler (01:18:14):
Recently he died, unfortunately. I never wanted anything bad to happen to him, but he was difficult. He was from London. And I respect most of those English directors are brilliant. He mistreated an actor and-

Harley Finkelstein (01:18:30):
[01:18:30] That's not okay for you.

Fran Weissler (01:18:31):
He did it deliberately. He knew what he was doing. It wasn't like he just casual-

Harley Finkelstein (01:18:36):
He was strategic. He was trying to create-

Fran Weissler (01:18:37):
He was strategic.

Harley Finkelstein (01:18:38):
... tension between them in the real world to bring that on stage.

David Segal (01:18:42):
You felt that was the wrong approach and that it wasn't the culture you were going to build in your productions?

Fran Weissler (01:18:47):
No. And remember, James is sitting like this.

David Segal (01:18:50):
He was down.

Harley Finkelstein (01:18:52):
There's an empathy that I think that you have here. Fran, anything you want to pass down to future generations of ambitious Jews or non-Jews? [01:19:00] People that maybe want to go to theater that don't, what do you want to pass down? If you're talking to 10,000 people in their 20s and 30s who want to be Fran, who want to be the next Fran.

Fran Weissler (01:19:10):
Oh, God.

Harley Finkelstein (01:19:11):
What would you say to them?

Fran Weissler (01:19:13):
Be true to yourself, number one. That's such a cliche.

Harley Finkelstein (01:19:18):
No, it's important.

Fran Weissler (01:19:20):
It's a cliche that works. I have to really think about that. You have to be prepared to really [01:19:30] work hard. People sometimes think producing a theater on Broadway, a show. Oh, my God, how fun. It's really hard. And picking the director and the senior designer, the customer, the lighting designer, the actors, the... All those people have to be... You have to really think about it. And then you have to think about what's the show [01:20:00] and did you pick the wrong show? Like so many people thought Chicago was, they ran away from it. We happened to get lucky or smart or whatever it was.

David Segal (01:20:13):
I think it was a lot more than that. Fran, you've produced some of the best pieces of art that have inspired so many around the world.

Fran Weissler (01:20:20):
Thank you. Thank you.

David Segal (01:20:21):
And it's been an honor to have you on Big Shot.

Fran Weissler (01:20:23):
Oh, thank... I'm so sorry you didn't see Barry. Barry-

Harley Finkelstein (01:20:28):
Well, we'll come back to town.

David Segal (01:20:29):
We want him next.

Harley Finkelstein (01:20:30):
[01:20:30] We wanted you. And actually, as you probably know, our mutual friend Danny connected us.

Fran Weissler (01:20:37):
Danny Meyer.

Harley Finkelstein (01:20:37):
Danny Meyer.

Fran Weissler (01:20:37):
Oh, I love him.

Harley Finkelstein (01:20:38):
And he's a great guy. But when I asked Danny about you, he holds you with the greatest respect amongst the greatest people and doers and makers, and builders and entrepreneurs on the planet. And you really inspire us. And thank you for joining us in Big Shot.

Fran Weissler (01:20:53):
Oh, I love that.

David Segal (01:20:53):
Thank you.

Fran Weissler (01:20:54):
You're so easy.

David Segal (01:20:55):
You're a real trailblazer.